TUC Still Passing Funny Money

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

I've lurked with great interest on the TUC threads. From the standpoint of an ignorant layman: could the apparent lack of law enforcement involvement in the TUC situation be one of those situations where they're being given enough rope to hang themselves? Or, is there already "plenty of rope"?

[wserra]

Or, is there already "plenty of rope"?

Let's see now. Armed men invade a bank, pretend to be federal agents, block the exits and demand money. They continue to try to pass funny money even after being hauled into Court by BofA. What more should they have done to get the attention of Florida law enforcement - donate to the Gore campaign?

[fortinbras]

TUC provides a full-color image of its funny money, front and back, at ....

http://theunitedcities.org/images/stori ... k1.jpg.jpg

It looks enough like US currency -- portraits that were apparently photographically copied, seal, lettering and arrangement apparently done by hand to closely copy the real stuff (the backs of the bills are a tad different) -- to justify a counterfeiting prosecution. To tell you the truth, it shows less artistry than the NORFED/LibertyDollar funny money.

According to TUC, they've printed out more than $3 Billion of this stuff*. I think the only way it could have value is if it's on paper that's very soft and absorbent.

By the way, elsewhere on the TUC website they have what purports to be a copyright notice, "All rights reserved 2010". A lawyer would have told them that postdating a copyright notice (by TWO years, no less) voids it altogether.
---*note: see follow-up, they actually claim more than $6 Billion of it.

[notorial dissent]

Looks like counterfeit to me, I think they have now crossed over fully into the Federal arena for sure, wonder how long it will take treasury to act on this.

[foolery]

From what ive been told its not illegal to print your own money like TUC is. Its only illegal to try to pass it as an official US Dollar. So if people were to accept TUC's money as compensation and they know what they received is, then their shouldn't be a problem right? Its just a matter of are people willing to accept it like they do the Dollar. And thats where i see it failing hard. I just wish i could make my relative see this way.

Hey Mr. Mephistopheles , where are these TUC threads you've found. I've been searching for any info on these guys and i cant find much. That in it's self is a reason for me to think these guys are a fraud. I mean how can you have 300+ Billion in assets but have almost nothing about you online? there should hundreds of pages in different forums of people who have worked with them just like any other major institution. 300 Billion+ is pretty major

[Lambkin]

If they had $300 billion, why would they need to print money or hold up banks?

[notorial dissent]

Actually the statutes are quite specific, and if it looks like currency and could be confused for currency which this stuff could be, then it is bad and wrong and will get you in all kinds of trouble, in just the same fashion that von Nuthouse brought his roof down upon his head. Plus, there is no doubt that they intend to try passing it just as they have tried to pass their phony checks. The intent is there.

[.]

According to TUC, they've printed out more than $3 Billion of this stuff

Ignoring the "more than," if the $3 billion were all $100s, that's 30,000,000 bills which would occupy 2,054,536 cubic inches. That's the equivalent of a 10.6 foot cube. Probably not easily hidden when the feds knock (or no-knock) on your door.

[fortinbras]

Actually, I misremembered their claim, they claim to have printed twice that amount, more than six billion, so that cube would have to be recalculated.

[quote=TUC Website]
TUC's certified portfolio of assets currently has a combined value of three hundred fifty seven billion, one hundred seventy million, nine hundred ninety three thousand, and four hundred and eighteen TUC dollars (357,170,993,418). We have currently printed in TUC private currency six billion, one hundred twenty seven million, three hundred seventy nine thousand, eight hundred ninety five dollars (6,127,379,895)
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what a "certified" portfolio is, but $357 Billion puts them ahead of several countries. You've got to wonder - with that much money why did they have to hire a lawyer out of the yellow pages to defend them in court?

[grixit]

Ok, let me try to break it down.

Their capital comes from their members pledging their own personal value, fine.

Let's say they have 1000 members, each of whom is capable of 50 productive years with an average salary of $100,000. So 1000 * 50 * 100,000 = 5 billion.

But wait! These are 1000 people participating in a mighty engine of finance, capable of freeing them from the bonds of the Federal Reserve and restrictive government policies. So let's say, conservatively, their potential is doubled. So now their total worth is 10 billion.

But wait! The engine is more powerful now too. So their participation makes them more productive still. Let's say, it's still a simple doubling. Now their total worth is 20 billion.

But wait!

Um, no, let's not. Apparently it's possible to get stuck in a causation loop without needing a time machine.

[.]

Their capital comes from their members pledging their own personal value

Probably easier to get to the total using the secret U.S. Treasury accounts based on their Social Security numbers. The one the evil Fed used to sell all of those secret bonds that they keep trying to redeem.

more than six billion, so that cube would have to be recalculated

6,127,379,895 TUC-bucks means the cube would be about 13.4 feet. Even harder to hide.

TUC's certified portfolio of assets currently has a combined value of three hundred fifty seven billion, one hundred seventy million, nine hundred ninety three thousand, and four hundred and eighteen TUC dollars (357,170,993,418)

So, let's see. Considering that a TUC-buck is worthless and totally useless for any purpose other than getting ones extremely stupid ass incarcerated, the actual value of the "certified portfolio of assets" as valued in TUC-bucks, which they apparently freely admit is what the "portfolio" is valued in, is exactly zero.

Perfect! That'll work!

[LPC]

According to TUC, they've printed out more than $3 Billion of this stuff

Ignoring the "more than," if the $3 billion were all $100s, that's 30,000,000 bills which would occupy 2,054,536 cubic inches. That's the equivalent of a 10.6 foot cube. Probably not easily hidden when the feds knock (or no-knock) on your door.

And it would weigh between 30 and 40 tons, so it will take time to move.

If not distributed properly, it will also cause floors to collapse.

If they could print 6 bills on letter-sized paper, that's 10,000 reams of paper, which would cost about $50,000 even if they used copier paper.

You don't suppose they're not being entirely honest about how much currency they've printed?

[Gregg]

Paper hell, how many ink jet cartridges would they use?

Not only do I doubt what they say about how much currency they've printed, if one of them was to tell me he was breathing I'd want a reliable second witness before I accept it as true.

[fortinbras]

From what ive been told its not illegal to print your own money like TUC is. Its only illegal to try to pass it as an official US Dollar.

Actually, it's illegal not only to churn out imitations of US currency, even if part of a circular or advertisement [18 USC 475] but also anything - even if different from genuine currency - that can be mistaken for real currency [18 USC 491]; and TUC funny money probably also falls within the definition of a "fictitious obligation" [18 USC 521].

What is very likely is that TUC will accept real money in return for this funny money. The (vast majority of the) people willing to make this transaction will be under no illusion about the worthlessness of TUC play money -- but they will have essentially parked their real money in a place that is invisible to the IRS, ex-wives, and other creditors; a scam called a warehouse bank. At some future date they will send back the TUC play money, possibly in installments, for refunds of their real money ... and any deductions made by the TUC will simply be accepted as the costs of concealing their assets. The National Barter Assn had such a warehouse bank for a while and NORFED/LibertyDollar also, although they wouldn't call it that.

[webhick]

Actually the statutes are quite specific, and if it looks like currency and could be confused for currency which this stuff could be, then it is bad and wrong and will get you in all kinds of trouble, in just the same fashion that von Nuthouse brought his roof down upon his head. Plus, there is no doubt that they intend to try passing it just as they have tried to pass their phony checks. The intent is there.

Lately, I've been having to do a double-take on the real FRNs. I imagine that one day, the gov't will have a case against Parker Bros for counterfeiting.

[.]

If they could print 6 bills on letter-sized paper

Not possible. U.S. currency is 2.61 inches wide by 6.14 inches long. On 8.5 x 11 paper, the most you get is 4 bills.

On 14" paper you get 6 bills. Never mind that none it of on any size paper complies with any of the multitude of security features or even basic cotton-content requirements.

(at 6 bills/page) that's 10,000 reams of paper, which would cost about $50,000 even if they used copier paper

Except that 8.5 x 14 copier paper is only about $2 a ream, not $5, in relatively small quantities, probably even less in gigantic TUC-like-quantities, so it's probably less than $20,000 if they bought 8.5 x 14 and got the local Office Depot manager all excited, regardless of whether they actually did that, which they probably didn't. Probably because they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together.

And it would weigh between 30 and 40 tons

If they used 14" paper they got 80% efficiency of raw paper to (totally useless, laughable) bills. 10,000 reams generated 53,333 pounds of bills, which is but a mere 26.7 tons. Light as a feather.

If not distributed properly, it will also cause floors to collapse.

No doubt about that. Especially here in termite-infested Miami.

[Burzmali]

I remember a story about an artist who would paint stylized versions of 50 dollar bills and try to barter them for goods and services at various local stores. Last I heard, he got a visit from the Secret Service, but I never heard what happened to him. The bills probably could be mistaken for real bills if only given a cursory glance, but he was never presenting them as money.

[The Observer]

What is very likely is that TUC will accept real money in return for this funny money. The (vast majority of the) people willing to make this transaction will be under no illusion about the worthlessness of TUC play money -- but they will have essentially parked their real money in a place that is invisible to the IRS, ex-wives, and other creditors; a scam called a warehouse bank. At some future date they will send back the TUC play money, possibly in installments, for refunds of their real money ... and any deductions made by the TUC will simply be accepted as the costs of concealing their assets. The National Barter Assn had such a warehouse bank for a while and NORFED/LibertyDollar also, although they wouldn't call it that.

Never mind that none it of on any size paper complies with any of the multitude of security features or even basic cotton-content requirements.

Which would create another moment of pathos if this scheme ever got off the ground, the spectre of con artists everywhere counterfeiting the TUC bills and sending them in for redemption.

[LPC]

I remember a story about an artist who would paint stylized versions of 50 dollar bills and try to barter them for goods and services at various local stores. Last I heard, he got a visit from the Secret Service, but I never heard what happened to him. The bills probably could be mistaken for real bills if only given a cursory glance, but he was never presenting them as money.

J. S. G. Boggs is his name.

According to Wikipedia, he was tried for counterfeiting in England and Australia, but acquitted both times. The U.S. Secret Service has confiscated some of his "works of art" but has NOT charged him with a crime.

[Randall]

What they did was print one $3,000,000,000 note.

One piece of paper, a little ink, and viola! Take it down to the nearest BoA branch and stick in the ATM, easy peasy.