Liberty Dollar Update

[grixit]

I can play too. I've got a crate of authentic genoise aged dry salami which i've sliced into coins. It's money with intrinsic value that you can really see, touch, and smell, not like the phantom `value' of the FRN. It was suggested that i use balogna instead, but i don't want infringe on the Liberty Dollar.

[Demosthenes]

Alert #23: Answer to US Complaint Filed
August 18. 2008

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
Thank you for your recent orders… We are on a roll… So sample this Alert:
The $1 Peace Dollars are flying out the door. All Hallmarked and Numbered editions are SOLD OUT. So if you want some $1 Peace Dollars ORDER NOW…
I am pleased to inform you that the Liberty Dollar defenders et al filed their Answer to the AUSA Thomas Ascik Complaint on Wednesday, August 13. Please click HERE http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/lawsuit.htm for their 32 page Answer and its six Exhibits, a total of a few hundred pages as we get rolling with our BIG "federal case." And of course I have not even been arrested… yet. But! I am sure that if they can indict a ham sandwich… they can and will indict me. Of course who would want a competitor whose product appreciates 500% while their crap depreciates 50% in the same time period!? More than just trying to run the Liberty Dollar out of business this is about economic and political power.
The government is clearly trying to destroy the Liberty Dollar business. And as the Defendant's Answer points out in Paragraph 233, the FBI raid on the Liberty Dollar was a classic example of the type of political oppression code-named COINTELPRO that date back to the 1960s and found to be a violation of the Privacy Act, 5 U.S.C. § 552.
Political Oppression that Wreaks!
Unfortunately, the brazen audacity of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to attack political organizations is nothing new. But to raid a large national political organization such as Liberty Dollar p! articipating in a hotly debated presidential election is un! heard of , and wreaks of political oppression. The title of a commentary by the Great Depression economist, Richard H. Timberlake, Jr., PhD, puts it right: "Gestapo raid on coin-producing enterprise."
As authorized by the Search and Seizure Warrants, the FBI raided NORFED - National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code. Can there be any doubt that NORFED was a political organization? It was openly opposed to laws passed by US Congress, the non-Federal non-Reserve IOUs that pass as "legal tender" fraud and an oppressive tax scheme that is universally despised by every "taxpayer" and a growing body of non-taxpayers! Its name, sheer size and the booming success of its fund raising product, Liberty Dollar, obviously caught the attention of the federal authorities and they took the only action they t! rust - Attack!
It's a given that every federal investigation begins with a wiretap. That is clear, simple and SOP. So there is every reason to accept as fact that the attack on the national Fulfillment Office of NORFED was specifically timed to confiscate the Ron Paul Dollars and the new Peace Dollars for maximum impact. There is no doubt that the FBI knew when the two-ton shipment of Ron Paul Dollars would arrive and they planned their attack for just two days after delivery to damage the Ron Paul campaign. This is wrong and grossly unconstitutional! This was clearly "political oppression" of campaign material. Just imagine what 60,000 campaign buttons, T-shirts or anything means to a political campaign. But WOW, just think what $60,000 Ron Paul Dollars would have accomplished at that critical time in Congressman Paul's campaign.
And this is no little campaign for dogcatcher. This was, and still is, a presidential ca! mpaign by a well-established, 30-year US Congressman for the P! resident of the United States! This is the most important political election in the country! And the Federal Bureau of Investigation goons confiscated over $100,000 worth of presidential campaign materials!!! This was nothing short of a Nazi style attack to eliminate the competition. This is an assault on our right to political expression as guaranteed by the First Amendment. This sucks big time! F!@#$#@ the FBI!
The attack on NORFED and Congressman Ron Paul's presidential campaign cannot be allowed to stand. In our Answer we demand the immediate return of all Ron Paul Dollars, Peace Dollars and all my political materials that were seized on November 14, 2007. We have less than 30 days until the Republican National Convention, September 1-4 and need that material now.
The FBI attack on NORFED was the same oppressive tactics they employed against the Peace Movement in the 1960s. Its code name then was COINTELPRO: "Counter Intelli! gence Program." It was used against John Lennon, Timothy Leary, Martin Luther King and thousands of other innocent people dedicated to a peaceful society.
COINTELPRO (Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert and clandestine projects/attacks conducted by the FBI aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the United States. The FBI used covert operations from its inception; however, the formal COINTELPRO operations took place between 1956 and 1971. The FBI motivation at the time was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order." Sound familiar?! Targets included Groups suspected of being subversive, such as student political organizations; those in the non-violent civil rights movement, almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War; and even individual student demonstrators. The directives governing COINTEL! PRO were issued by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover who ordered! FBI age nts to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders. If you went to college in the 60s you were spied on.
Guess what? The same FBI is still spying on you today! Recent news accounts have disclosed a burgeoning government (Pentagon, NSA, FBI, CIA, etc.) campaign for "detecting, identifying and engaging" internal enemies that include a database of personal information. The FBI is using "national security letters" to obtain secret access to your personal records and tens of thousands of Americans. And the National Security Agency's interception of telephone calls and e-mails from the United States - without notice to the federal court that has jurisdiction over domestic spying - had been going on since 1978. OK… so maybe you had some privacy from 1971 to 1978. But not NOW!
In the same month that NORFED was attacked, The W! ashington Post disclosed an exponentially growing practice of domestic surveillance under the USA Patriot Act, using the FBI's "national security letters." Originally created in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations, the letters enable the FBI to secretly review the private telephone and financial records of suspected foreign agents. But the hated Bush regime, referring to the Patriot Act, transformed the purpose of those letters to permit clandestine scrutiny of U.S. residents and visitors who are not alleged to be terrorists or spies!
This series of revelations about domestic spying that have emerged in the past few months are always defended in the name of fighting "terrorism." This argument is a complete and utter lie. There is no doubt that these programs against NORFED, the Liberty Dollar, you and me have been enacted, enabled and deployed to stifle constitutionally protected domestic polit! ical dissents. The proverbial handwriting is on the wall. T! he US go vernment is against the very People who created it. And to make matters worse for you, me, the economy, your children's education, etc., the government stands for war… war… and more war! Enough! This is NOT bullshit… it is a crime!
Excuse me, but what the hell is the FBI doing spying on you and me? And why did they raid the Liberty Dollar? Why did the FBI confiscate the Peace Dollars and Ron Paul Dollars?! To kill political dissents. Clear and simple!
When I did six years in the 60s at Kansas State University, the person who published the radical "student" newspaper turned out to be an FBI agent! I now know he was part of the government COINTELPRO. The only difference between Kent State and Kansas State was that the government did not murder four students at K-State. The only difference between the FBI raid on NORFED and a raid on your home is that I have already been raided. If you want to protect ! your gold and silver, if you support a peaceful society, then please support the Liberty Dollar with a donation or at least an order.
Love the country? Love your home? Have a vested interest in the economic system? Please take action: Click on this link: http://www3.capwiz.com/y/dbq/media. Click five media locations in your area (limit 5 at a time) and send this Press Release to them.
SAMPLE PRESS RELEASE:
IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 18, 2008
Political Oppression of Ron Paul Dollars
Liberty Dollar Cites FBI Seizure as Covert Action against Ron Paul Campaign
Demands the Immediate Return of Two Tons of Ron Paul Dollars
http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/lawsuit.htm
EVANSVILLE, INDIANA - Liberty Dollar Group announced today that it has filed an Answ! er in Federal Court for the immediate return of thousands of g! old, sil ver, platinum, and copper Liberty Dollars - including two tons of Ron Paul Dollars - seized in a FBI raid on November 14, 2007.
The group denounced the confiscation as political oppression of the Ron Paul presidential campaign and asserted that the seizure of the Ron Paul Dollars constitutes an attack on its First Amendment right of political expression. They point that in addition to the Ron Paul Dollar with a presidential candidate engraved on the front, the Peace Dollar features the Statue of Liberty torch with STOP THE WAR - clearly an 'expressive act' with political intent protected by the Bill of Rights.
The defendant's Answer to the government's Complaint says the federal government has no right to hold the currency, since it does not "constitute contraband or other property subject to seizure." And that the seizures violate the plaintiff's First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights.
Von NotHaus says he's "beyond outraged" over the government's brutal oppressive behavior. "It was bad enough that the U.S. Mint branded us as criminals for exercising our right to freely exchange the private gold and silver currency," he said. "But interfering with Ron Paul's presidential campaign is clearly a Gestapo tactic."
The agents based their search and seizure warrants on an affidavit that the currency was being marketed illegally as legal tender. This claim is denied strenuously by Bernard von NotHaus, the fiery monetary architect of the currency. He points out that the primary point of the marketing was that it was NOT legal tender and that the Liberty Dollar is a private voluntary barter currency.
Robert J. Stientjes, the plaintiff's attorney, asserts in the Answer that the affidavit does not constitute a prima facia allegation of probable cause. His motion also points out that "without the misleaing depictions of the size, weight and color… there is no probable cause for issuance of the warrants."
The plaintiffs explain that the Ron Paul Dollar was created to give citizens the opportunity to own valuable metals, while providing important support for the Ron Paul campaign. They say they intended to make a significant donation for every Ron Paul Dollar issued.
Von NotHaus points out, "The US dollar has lost over 50% of its value in the last ten years, while the Liberty Dollar has appreciated by 500%! Would you rather make five times your money or lose half of it? I think the government is trying to crush our inflation-proof currency plus Ron Paul's free market and peace campaign in a single stroke."
ADD YOUR NAME AND CONTACT INFO HERE…

Thank God for Founding Father George Mason's demand for the Bill of Rights! Otherwise we wouldn't have shit! Well, we would still have the Bush regime, which is just the same!
Meanwhile the $1 Peace! Dollars are flying out the door. All Hallmarked and Numbered editions are SOLD OUT. So if you want some $1 Peace Dollars ORDER NOW…
And if you have a few minutes check out this interview by Don Harrold:
#1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMtRekpiP4A
#2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u4U9bUYMdE

More news on my retirement will be disclosed as we get closer to October 1… but I can tell you that my retirement will probably "blow your mind!"
Many thanks to all the Liberty Associates, Merchants, and RCOs for your continued support. For it is only by banding together and adopting a free and independent currency that provides us with "just weights and measures" will we ! be able to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax sy! stem and generate a peaceful and prosperous society.
Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect
________________________________________
Click HERE to Subscribe to Future Mailings.
To be removed from all future mailings follow the instructions HERE.

[The Operative]

Gee Bernard, you moved liberty dollars to the "$50 base" when silver was about $17.50 an ounce. Now that silver is trading at approximately $13 an ounce, are you going to switch back to $20 base? Or does that not fit into your fantasy world?

[fortinbras]

I hadn't realized that von NotHaus had boosted his silver Libertys to $50. Originally they were $10, then moved up to $20 when the market price of silver rose to about $7 an ounce. A jump from $20 to $50 is really something, and means that at some point he was charging about three times the intrinsic value. Of course, with his $1 copper Liberty (containing 21 cents worth of copper), he has exceeded even that proportion.

[SteveSy]

I hadn't realized that von NotHaus had boosted his silver Libertys to $50. Originally they were $10, then moved up to $20 when the market price of silver rose to about $7 an ounce. A jump from $20 to $50 is really something, and means that at some point he was charging about three times the intrinsic value. Of course, with his $1 copper Liberty (containing 21 cents worth of copper), he has exceeded even that proportion.

If you had a slew of $10 libby's you would have made a profit, its at $13.00. No one was forced to buy these things. You guys make such a big deal out of it. Why not pick on one of those credit card companies that let you spend $10,000 and then charge you $11,000 in interest over 33 years if you make minimum payments. Why not pick on one of those Visa gift cards that charge you a monthly maintenance fee of $2.50. If the DOJ hadn't stole all of the precious metals that backed the libby you would have been much better off holding on to a libby than one of those Visa gift cards over time.

btw, please don't come back and say "well, if you just purchased the silver instead of the libby backed by silver you would have made more money." Well, if you handed someone a $100 instead of one of those gift cards that the didn't use for a couple of years they too would have had more money.

[The Operative]

If you had a slew of $10 libby's you would have made a profit, its at $13.00. No one was forced to buy these things. You guys make such a big deal out of it. Why not pick on one of those credit card companies that let you spend $10,000 and then charge you $11,000 in interest over 33 years if you make minimum payments.

You are comparing apples and oranges Steve. The idea of the libby was to be a currency and spend it. As has been pointed out before, if a person wanted an investment, there were plenty of better options. Credit cards, on the other hand, are loaning money a person does not have yet which is significantly different than libbies. Additionally, credit cards are a legal alternative and are at least somewhat regulated. Libbies are neither. What about the people that bought $50 libbies when silver was around $18 to $20 an ounce? Those people paid probably more than $40 for an ounce of silver and now silver is at $13. That is even worse than your gift card example.

Why not pick on one of those Visa gift cards that charge you a monthly maintenance fee of $2.50. If the DOJ hadn't stole all of the precious metals that backed the libby you would have been much better off holding on to a libby than one of those Visa gift cards over time.

btw, please don't come back and say "well, if you just purchased the silver instead of the libby backed by silver you would have made more money." Well, if you handed someone a $100 instead of one of those gift cards that the didn't use for a couple of years they too would have had more money.

We don't pick on the Visa give cards, because they are known to be legal. The idea of gift cards is to use them. Fees and expiration dates are meant to encourage people to use them early.

Bernard makes a big deal about libbies being inflation proof. Too bad his currency has lost 74% of its face value in five months.

[SteveSy]

We don't pick on the Visa give cards, because they are known to be legal. The idea of gift cards is to use them. Fees and expiration dates are meant to encourage people to use them early.

They're not to different. Both represent an exchange value. Only a retard would think they look like federal reserve notes.

Bernard makes a big deal about libbies being inflation proof. Too bad his currency has lost 74% of its face value in five months.

That's not very fair...The government took all the metal that backed the private currency. Even if he is found to have done nothing wrong they accomplished the mission. I'm still trying to figure out why they needed to seize ALL of the metal if their only intention was to gather evidence.

[SteveSy]

If you had a slew of $10 libby's you would have made a profit, its at $13.00. No one was forced to buy these things. You guys make such a big deal out of it. Why not pick on one of those credit card companies that let you spend $10,000 and then charge you $11,000 in interest over 33 years if you make minimum payments.

You are comparing apples and oranges Steve. The idea of the libby was to be a currency and spend it.

So the idea of a gift card with $100 written on it is not to spend it like a currency?

As has been pointed out before, if a person wanted an investment, there were plenty of better options. Credit cards, on the other hand, are loaning money a person does not have yet which is significantly different than libbies. Additionally, credit cards are a legal alternative and are at least somewhat regulated. Libbies are neither. What about the people that bought $50 libbies when silver was around $18 to $20 an ounce? Those people paid probably more than $40 for an ounce of silver and now silver is at $13. That is even worse than your gift card example.

Libbys were not an investment, at least not in the respect of buying ounces of precious metals. Its purpose was to have a protected currency. Libbys would never lose as much value as federal reserve notes, well except when the government seizes all of the precious metal that backed the Libbys.

We don't pick on the Visa give cards, because they are known to be legal. The idea of gift cards is to use them. Fees and expiration dates are meant to encourage people to use them early.

In substance they are exactly them same IMO. Both are used to purchase stuff with and both represent a private currency. btw, when has any court found that the libbys are illegal?

Bernard makes a big deal about libbies being inflation proof. Too bad his currency has lost 74% of its face value in five months.

[/quote]
Come on that's just lame....the government stole all of the precious metals that backed them.

[SteveSy]

Until I see an inventory of the precious metals seized by the Federal government when they raided von NotHaus, we only have von NotHaus' word that he even had a sizeable cache of gold, silver and platinum.

Ummm, from what I've seen he was audited by a private firm. I have no idea if he had enough or not, until I see the government say he didn't have enough then I'll assume he did. I'm sure the government would have loved to spew that propaganda all over the place if it were true.

Also, would need to produce the receipts that show his purchase of the raw materials (which could then be verified or denied by the seller).

Do you ask that of your Visa gift card vendor? Hey Visa I want you o show me you actually have enough cash in the bank to back all of these cards you're issuing with X amount of exchange value.

If the two match up, so be it. If not, I would suspect one of the parties of being a bald-faced liar, a fraud and a scm artist and I would suspect von NotHaus himself.

Of course you always assume the worst when it concerns the government implying something. I would suspect the government is the scam artist and seized all of his stores of metal to destroy the libby knowing full well what he was doing was perfectly legal.

The Liberty Dollar and related precious metal items, is a horrendous choice if you wish to hold physical precious metals and his private currency "scheme" is even worse as it is backed only by von NotHaus' word that he has the gold, silver and platinuim to back up the receipt in a storage facility somewhere.

Whatever...he had the stores audited.

His stuff is strictly for rubes, hicks, suckers, idiots, morons, low-browed knuckle-draggers, and the gullible.

I would say the same about Federal reserve notes, the difference being we are forced to take them and use them. The federal reserve note has lost over 90% of their value since they were first created. You would have been much, much better off using inflated libby dollars if they had been created around the same time.

[Burzmali]

Actually, bills from the first batch of dollars printed would be extremely valuable today.

[The Operative]

Bernard makes a big deal about libbies being inflation proof. Too bad his currency has lost 74% of its face value in five months.

Come on that's just lame....the government stole all of the precious metals that backed them.

Nothing lame about it. The libbie coins were supposed to contain the silver. Only the warehouse receipts were supposed to backed by bullion stored in the warehouse. He makes a big deal about them being inflation proof, but his $50 silver liberty coins which he started selling in March are only worth $13. There is no getting around that fact.

[The Operative]

That's not very fair...The government took all the metal that backed the private currency. Even if he is found to have done nothing wrong they accomplished the mission. I'm still trying to figure out why they needed to seize ALL of the metal if their only intention was to gather evidence.

If law enforcement was investigating a counterfeiting operation, do they only seize a portion of the bills at a location? No. If law enforcement was investigating a drug operation, do they only seize a few ounces of drugs? Of course not. When law enforcement is investigating what they believe is a crime, they take all evidence that they believe is associated with that alleged crime.

[webhick]

I feel the need to point out that there has been some speculation here about the validity of the audits. Including the issue that the person who did the audit does not appear to exist at the specified firm.

http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.p ... dit#p24898

[The Operative]

If you had a slew of $10 libby's you would have made a profit, its at $13.00. No one was forced to buy these things. You guys make such a big deal out of it. Why not pick on one of those credit card companies that let you spend $10,000 and then charge you $11,000 in interest over 33 years if you make minimum payments.

You are comparing apples and oranges Steve. The idea of the libby was to be a currency and spend it.

So the idea of a gift card with $100 written on it is not to spend it like a currency?

No, the idea of a gift card is to spend it like currency. LOOK AT WHAT YOU WROTE. I made it bold for you. $10 libbies haven't been sold for more than two years. The only way a person would be looking at a profit with libbies is if they had BOUGHT AND HELD the libbies.

As has been pointed out before, if a person wanted an investment, there were plenty of better options. Credit cards, on the other hand, are loaning money a person does not have yet which is significantly different than libbies. Additionally, credit cards are a legal alternative and are at least somewhat regulated. Libbies are neither. What about the people that bought $50 libbies when silver was around $18 to $20 an ounce? Those people paid probably more than $40 for an ounce of silver and now silver is at $13. That is even worse than your gift card example.

Libbys were not an investment, at least not in the respect of buying ounces of precious metals. Its purpose was to have a protected currency. Libbys would never lose as much value as federal reserve notes, well except when the government seizes all of the precious metal that backed the Libbys.

Yet they have lost value. Even if the government hadn't seized the metal stored by Norfed. The only ones that haven't lost value are ones purchased more than two years ago. Again, if a person wanted to HOLD silver, they should have bought silver bullion coins instead of libbies. Also, the seizure of the metal has no effect on the coins, only on the warehouse receipts.

We don't pick on the Visa give cards, because they are known to be legal. The idea of gift cards is to use them. Fees and expiration dates are meant to encourage people to use them early.

In substance they are exactly them same IMO. Both are used to purchase stuff with and both represent a private currency. btw, when has any court found that the libbys are illegal?

There hasn't been a court that has found libbies to be illegal. READ WHAT I WROTE. I said that gift cards and credit cards are KNOWN TO BE LEGAL. There is some question as to whether libbies are legal.

[Joey Smith]

No one was forced to buy these things.

Agreed, but it's just funny how these suckers once again get scammed. It's sort of like somebody who keeps falling for the Nigerian scam. After the first time, you quit feeling sympathy for them and start laughing at their stupidity.

By and large, the people dumb enough to buy Liberty Dollars don't have the proverbial pot to piss in, and will soon be trying to trade their Liberty Dollars for packs of smokes, or front-section tickets at the pro wrasslin' extravaganza.

[SteveSy]

That's not very fair...The government took all the metal that backed the private currency. Even if he is found to have done nothing wrong they accomplished the mission. I'm still trying to figure out why they needed to seize ALL of the metal if their only intention was to gather evidence.

If law enforcement was investigating a counterfeiting operation, do they only seize a portion of the bills at a location? No. If law enforcement was investigating a drug operation, do they only seize a few ounces of drugs? Of course not. When law enforcement is investigating what they believe is a crime, they take all evidence that they believe is associated with that alleged crime.

I hereby call a red herring alert!

Was Norfed charged with counterfeiting? Was the silver, gold and platinum that backed the paper notes counterfeited or identified as illegal? Were there accusations that the metals were acquired illegally?

The only thing was was possibly illegal was the notes themselves and possibly the private minted coins. The actual metals that backed the notes had nothing to do with the crime of minting a "currency" and it wasn't the property of Norfed it was the property of those holding the Warehouse Receipts.

[cynicalflyer]

I hereby call a red herring alert!

Was Norfed charged with counterfeiting? Was the silver, gold and platinum that backed the paper notes counterfeited or identified as illegal? Were there accusations that the metals were acquired illegally?

The only thing was was possibly illegal was the notes themselves and possibly the private minted coins. The actual metals that backed the notes had nothing to do with the crime of minting a "currency" and it wasn't the property of Norfed it was the property of those holding the Warehouse Receipts.

To date, that I am aware, no one has been charged with anything. However...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02267.html

In the affidavit [for the search warrant on NotHaus], an FBI special agent states that he is investigating Norfed for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver, or other metal," "making or possessing likeness of coins," mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy.

So yeah, the metal is relevant to the 18 U.S.C. 486 charge "Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal". Also, if they are going to press the money laundering aspect I would imagine if as you put it "it was the property of those holding the Warehouse Receipts" then there may be an effort to press charges that NotHaus helped launder the money for others through NORFED.

Finally, it does not matter whose property it was if it was found on site it was within the scope of the warrant.

[The Operative]

That's not very fair...The government took all the metal that backed the private currency. Even if he is found to have done nothing wrong they accomplished the mission. I'm still trying to figure out why they needed to seize ALL of the metal if their only intention was to gather evidence.

If law enforcement was investigating a counterfeiting operation, do they only seize a portion of the bills at a location? No. If law enforcement was investigating a drug operation, do they only seize a few ounces of drugs? Of course not. When law enforcement is investigating what they believe is a crime, they take all evidence that they believe is associated with that alleged crime.

I hereby call a red herring alert!

Was Norfed charged with counterfeiting? Was the silver, gold and platinum that backed the paper notes counterfeited or identified as illegal? Were there accusations that the metals were acquired illegally?

The only thing was was possibly illegal was the notes themselves and possibly the private minted coins. The actual metals that backed the notes had nothing to do with the crime of minting a "currency" and it wasn't the property of Norfed it was the property of those holding the Warehouse Receipts.

The only red herring is your inability to read. I did not say that Norfed was charged with counterfeiting. I was giving a counterfeiting crime as AN EXAMPLE. Read the last sentence of what I wrote. I made it bold especially for you.

[Paul]

Hey, go easy on Stevesy! When I read your post, I honestly thought you meant the ebil gubbermint was accusing them of smoking the gold!

[SteveSy]

I hereby call a red herring alert!

Was Norfed charged with counterfeiting? Was the silver, gold and platinum that backed the paper notes counterfeited or identified as illegal? Were there accusations that the metals were acquired illegally?

The only thing was was possibly illegal was the notes themselves and possibly the private minted coins. The actual metals that backed the notes had nothing to do with the crime of minting a "currency" and it wasn't the property of Norfed it was the property of those holding the Warehouse Receipts.

The only red herring is your inability to read. I did not say that Norfed was charged with counterfeiting. I was giving a counterfeiting crime as AN EXAMPLE. Read the last sentence of what I wrote. I made it bold especially for you.

Counterfeiting is not even remotely the same as what Norfed did. Of course they would take all the drugs and counterfeit money in those crimes, those items are illegal. Gold and silver bullion isn't illegal nor was it acquired illegally. The only thing that may be illegal are the notes and the minted coins not the bullion used to back it. Besides the bullion wasn't even Norfed's it was the certificate holders property. The government knew if they seized all of the backing for the currency it was dead. Now they can sit on it forever, while the pitifully slow wheels of justice turn ,and the currency regardless if its legal or not is dead, end of story.