Robert Menard

[wserra]

In the now-locked "Sam Kennedy" thread, Leftcoaster quoted me:

It's just not credible that anyone made of protoplasm is that dumb.

you never met Robert Menard

Right, I haven't. There's not that much available on the guy. However, for those of you who wish to shed some IQ points, I offer his "Magnificent Deception" video. It begins with the words "Super concentrated truth can harm those accustomed to only lies" - and then drones on for over two bleedin' hours.

If that video is "super concentrated", this guy's free association would outlast the solar system. It's been asked before, but why are wackos so verbose?

[Quixote]

It's been asked before, but why are wackos so verbose?

The more they say, the greater the possibility that something they say will resonate with some other wacko. The wacko's target audience consists of people with selective hearing, who will ignore the 99% of his message that does not support their own beliefs, but who will recognize the TRUTH in the remaining 1%.

[ASITStands]

It's been asked before, but why are wackos so verbose?

Because they're "whacked out?"

Seriously, "Quixote's" explanation might be right too.

[Nikki]

They operate on the theory that if you throw enough pasta at the wall, eventually something's going to stick.

As an interesting exercise, compare the huxters' screeds with the daily horoscopes in your local newspaper. You'll find the same one-size-fits-all collections of generalities.

[grixit]

There's simple trick for throwing a pebble through a small hole at a distance. You throw a handful at a time. Replace "pebble" with "perposterous claim" and "hole" with "mark's succeptability".

[Leftcoaster]

I hope you didn't watch the whole thing.
It's best in small 5-10 min batches so you can catch your breath from all the laughing, and to wipe away the tears.

A former colleague of mine had a rather extensive interview with him once. Once was too much.

[wserra]

I hope you didn't watch the whole thing.

God, no.

The five minutes I watched made me feel as though I was taking a bullet out of my ass with a Carvel spoon.

[notorial dissent]

It's been asked before, but why are wackos so verbose?

The more they say, the greater the possibility that something they say will resonate with some other wacko. The wacko's target audience consists of people with selective hearing, who will ignore the 99% of his message that does not support their own beliefs, but who will recognize the TRUTH in the remaining 1%.

I personally think you are being more than a bit generous with your percentages. I would put it closer to 99.9% and .1%.

I agree with the selective hearing part, as I see far too many examples of it on a daily basis. The attendees are going looking for something to validate what they want to believe, and that is what they will hear and tenaciously cling to at all costs to themselves.

Just remember the old adage, that even a stopped clock is right twice a day and that pretty well covers it.

[fortinbras]

Since this Robert Arthur Menard (and he writes it Robert-Arthur: Menard) is Canadian, I made a feeble effort to find if Canadian court cases mentioned him.

One case right on the money: United States of America v. [Marc Scott] Emery a/k/a "The Prince of Pot" (British Columbia Supreme Ct, Aug. 17, 2005) 2005 BCSC 1192.

The US govt sought the extradition -- and the Canadian govt clearly wanted to oblige -- of fugitive American marijuana entrepreneur Marc Scott Emery. "Robert-Arthur: Menard" showed up in court to be an intervenor either pro se or on behalf of "the Elizabeth Anne Elaine Society" of which he was the director. He argued that extradition was applicable only to activities which are "against the law" and "to label a statute [- in this case the Canadian anti-marijuana statutes -] as a law without examining the need of consent is disingenuous." Also, "Robert-Arthur: Menard claims that ... the governments of this land have abandoned their posts as no one in the court is representing or acting on behalf of the Canadian people." -- because the Canadian prosecutor is taking the side of the US authorities. He further argued that sending Emery back to the US where he would go to prison meant sending him "into a system amounting to slavery" -- an exception to the extradition law. "The applicant maintains that if I have no jurisdiction in law to grant him intervenor status, then there is precedent in the Holy Bible for me to recognize his intervenor status in these proceedings."

The extradition judge, Hon. Justice S. R. Romilly, very patiently analyzed Menard's pleadings as if he took them seriously -- Canadian courts are considerably more tolerant of nuts than US courts -- and determined after extensive citation of legal authorities that Menard did not fall into the very narrow criteria to be an intervenor in an extradition case, so his application to intervene was dismissed.

This was the only instance I could find of "Robert-Arthur: Menard". However, in Quebec, there had been several cases involving a Robert Menard (no middle name given, no funny punctuation) who had an active criminal career, especially in the field of fraud, but the decisions are all in French and the fellow in the video doesn't seem to be Quebecois.

[wserra]

Canadian courts are considerably more tolerant of nuts than US courts

For whatever reason, they appear not to have as many. Give 'em time.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Canadian courts are considerably more tolerant of nuts than US courts

My experience is most courts are too lenient when it comes to responding to what can only be described as "lunatic" pleadings and motions. It's more than just annoying to see cases where the court has exhausted hours of time trying to glean some sense out of these things.

[Leftcoaster]

Canadian courts are considerably more tolerant of nuts than US courts

For whatever reason, they appear not to have as many. Give 'em time.

Numbers seem to be down on our side of the fence actually, but it could be cyclical.

[Leftcoaster]

"the Elizabeth Anne Elaine Society" of which he was the director.

founder, only member, etc, etc.
Can you say "child custody dispute as the impetus for going off the deep-end?"
I knew you could.

[Doktor Avalanche]

It's been asked before, but why are wackos so verbose?

My theory is that they subscribe to the "if we throw enough sh*t against the wall something will eventually stick" school of thought.

[.]

Narcissism. Their every thought is so valuable they feel compelled to regurgitate all of them.

[mrmitee]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1015&hl=en

Menard is at it again it seems.

[wserra]

Welcome to Quatloos, mrmitee.

A couple of minutes into the video, Menard decides to call some random folks for a "poll". The screen consists of a super closeup of his face, so close that I want to put on my foil hat to screen the rays. He gets some guy on the phone, and the following ensues:

Menard: Do you have a few minutes to answer some questions for a poll I'm conducting?

Victim: Uh ... OK. [It's Canada, they're nicer than we are.]

Menard: About the government - do you ever have a sneaking suspicion that corporations have secretly taken it over and are about to suck your brain dry?

Victim: Sure. But then I take my medication.

Awright, the last line isn't exactly a quote. But it should have been.

I think online videos are harbingers of Armageddon.

[Burnaby49]

I'm surprised. I wanted to post something about Robert Menard, our great Freeman guru, so I thought I'd add it to an existing discussion thread. However I searched in vain for one until I found this relic from 2008. Frankly this neglect appalls me! He is mentioned many, many times in other discussions of lesser gurus but this sham of a thread is the best we can do for the Freedom Pickle?

Ok, on to my posting. Notwithstanding our neglect Menard has mentioned us on glowing terms! At least I view his comments as praise. His latest Facebook posting says;

Robert Menard shared a link.
April 1 · Edited
http://thomassheridanarts.com/articles. ... icle_id=82
Something tells me this guy has met the RANDIOTS and QUATLOOSERS....
Great article. If you want to see this mindset in action check out the RANDI Forum or Quatloos. Such hate filled, angry arrogant attitudes. But now I have a better understanding about why.

Although I'm at a bit of a loss as to why Menard calls we hate filled, angry, arrogant (Thanks Rob!) Quatlosers "Quatloosers". What got loose?

The "great article" was a disappointment, didn't rant on about us at all, just a generic puff piece about evil skeptics who don't believe in god or flying saucers. I do take issue with one paragraph however;

The reality is that apart from their own kind—other self-proclaimed non-'idiots'—most people find such arrogant and obnoxious debunkers and hardcore skeptics to be strangely angry and boorish, and often confrontational to the point of hysterical. So many of them seem to lack basic social and behavioural skills when 'debating' with their 'kook' of choice. Their absolutism can be staggering at times. Yet, despite all this, they have somehow come to consider themselves 'cool' and even 'sexy' within the last decade. This is simply a lack of critical thinking on their behalf; a distorted worldview where only they are right and everyone else is an idiot.

Ask my wife, I've never considered myself 'sexy'. Unfortunately neither has she.

[Jeffrey]

I'm surprised. I wanted to post something about Robert Menard, our great Freeman guru, so I thought I'd add it to an existing discussion thread. However I searched in vain for one until I found this relic from 2008. Frankly this neglect appalls me! He is mentioned many, many times in other discussions of lesser gurus but this sham of a thread is the best we can do for the Freedom Pickle?

Probably because Menard hasn't really done anything worth discussing, the occasional Facebook rant isn't really notable. Sure Menard was the brains behind the peace officer impersonation scheme that got the Nainamo gang busted but Menard came up with that nonsense in 2009 or earlier, so it took 5 or 6 years before someone put his plan into action. The majority of the credit should rightfully go to the idiots in jail.

The post-Meads Menard is an interesting creature. Dean Clifford and other Gurus clearly stole the spotlight off him. Dean Clifford publicly claims Menard wasn't a significant influence yet DC makes references to Menard's NUICOR scheme, fee schedules, it's highly likely that DC's problems with his utility company were related to Menard's 96 is your fix scheme, and his latest attempt at getting out of jail via default is pure Menard. Keith Thompson/Kate of Gaia similarly denounced and distanced himself from Menard. So Menard is in a bizarre situation within the Sov-sphere where the remaining Gurus use his material and concepts but he himself is anathema.

Meanwhile Menard clearly can read the tea leaves and tell that the authorities are clearly cracking down on them. It's gotta be a lot harder now to sell books, dvds and lectures when you have news coverage of Nainamo guys being arrested for something you said was legal, Dean in jail the last 4 months when you said that you can drive without a license no problem and you dont need a license for guns in your CBC interview. In fact go rewatch Menards CBC interview, nearly everything Menard says you won't get in trouble for doing, Clifford is currently in jail facing charges over.

I think his retreat to Facebook is just a recognition that he can't walk the walk without ending up in jail like Dean and the Nainamo gang. It's also a recognition that the guru gravy train, which as far as we can tell wasn't ever that lucrative for Menard, is itself over.

Menard getting a mention in Meads, a court decision whose impact Mowe has detailed extensively, is in some weird way quite an accomplishment but absent some new activity from him, Menard should only be talked about past tense and allowed to fade away. I mentioned Meads to a friend in meatspace the other day and he pointed out something I don't think we've noted here on Quatloos. Of the three main Gurus mentioned in Meads, Menard, Belanger, Nanya. All three are or have at one time been homeless. I think there should probably some restraint over the degree of criticism given that these are people that are already at the margins of society. In the case of Nanya and Ream, clearly examples of a need for a robust mental health system. While I get that the court proceedings are public record maybe we should think before posting certain things, I have to imagine Ream must have a family out there that's going through hell.

Even in the case of Clifford, there are multiple references to Clifford's family and their disaproval of his freeman activities. I can't imagine what it must be like for their father to have to see both his sons plastered in local newspapers being arrested for assault, to have one of them in jail for the last 4 months and facing a decade or more in jail.

[Burnaby49]

I'm surprised. I wanted to post something about Robert Menard, our great Freeman guru, so I thought I'd add it to an existing discussion thread. However I searched in vain for one until I found this relic from 2008. Frankly this neglect appalls me! He is mentioned many, many times in other discussions of lesser gurus but this sham of a thread is the best we can do for the Freedom Pickle?

. . . . I mentioned Meads to a friend in meatspace the other day and he pointed out something I don't think we've noted here on Quatloos. Of the three main Gurus mentioned in Meads, Menard, Belanger, Nanya. All three are or have at one time been homeless. I think there should probably some restraint over the degree of criticism given that these are people that are already at the margins of society. In the case of Nanya and Ream, clearly examples of a need for a robust mental health system. While I get that the court proceedings are public record maybe we should think before posting certain things, I have to imagine Ream must have a family out there that's going through hell.

Even in the case of Clifford, there are multiple references to Clifford's family and their disaproval of his freeman activities. I can't imagine what it must be like for their father to have to see both his sons plastered in local newspapers being arrested for assault, to have one of them in jail for the last 4 months and facing a decade or more in jail.

We haven't noted here that they have been homeless? Have you been paying attention? Nanya is on the street because of a court order barring him from his mother's house, made at her own request to the court because he abused her. Belanger, as Mowe has noted, essentially lives in a homeless shelter. We've discussed Menard's lifestyle in detail, including the fact that he squats in whatever dump he can find. All this has been covered in Quatloos. What is your point on this? That they are unfortunate victims of chance deserving of our sympathy? Granted Nanya seems crazy but Menard and Belanger's vicissitudes relate to their own deliberate choice to be parasites rather than contributors.

You seem to be of the opinion that we should go easy on them to minimize the distress to their relatives. Do you really think that any comments made on Quatloos will add to the emotional distress any caring family members they have left face as a result of their lifestyle choices? I doubt we will be causing Nanya's mother any additional grief by reporting on his current activities.

I agree Ream is a special case and I've said so frequently. He just seems hapless and lost. But his self-destructive path has not been affected by anything posted here. I think we have been fair with him.

I try to report objectively while mocking the ones who are not, as far as I can tell, driven by mental illnesses beyond their control. If you feel that that is unfair to their families then perhaps you should be focusing more on their victims, the deluded followers who, for whatever reason, look up to them. Their families will suffer from their actions no matter what we do.

Dean Clifford's family are in the same position as any family of a criminal on his way to incarceration. As a father I sympathize with his parents but I don't see why you seem to think that this means a veil of silence should be wrapped over his activities to spare them distress. Clifford still has many deluded followers goading him on to destruction. I'd suggest they distress the family more than anything said here.