How, When and Who: the LostHorizons Forums going dark?

[cynicalflyer]

This comment

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2898#p44844

IRS attorney handling Mr. Welzel's case has received a referral to the LoserHeads forum and Welzel's threads in specific.

He said that his case will now be much easier since he (1) is aware of every single aspect of Welzel's strategy and (2) will be able to introduce the forum into evidence as support for Welzel's evasion tactics.

Has me wondering:
a) Who is going to shut down the forums first? Will Pete delete or will the IRS get an injunction?
b) How is it going to go dark? Will Pete simply allow members-only access so as to avoid having future postings used? Or will he delete it all? Or will the IRS shut it down?
c) When?

[webhick]

I voted for the stoo-peed option for a number of reasons.

A while back, Victoria was shocked, , I tell you to learn that we could see their forum without being logged in. So, most of them probably think their conversations are private. If the forum goes private, then "guests" won't be able to read the threads, learn of the "victories," wig out and buy CtC. Also, if the forum goes private, then they won't get their egos rubbed by the notion that their "wisdom" visible by all.

I feel an urge to post a sarcastic "wisdom" of the tax "honesty" "movement" with "absolutely necessary" quotation marks post. If it doesn't pass before tonight, you will all regret reading it and, no, I don't issue refunds for lost time. Hmm, reminds me. Ugly children can't be returned from whence they came. Maybe they can. I bet it hurts.

[Leftcoaster]

When you're delusional and feeling invincible, there's no reason to show weakness by deleting the forum.

[grammarian44]

The forum will die a slow, painful death, which will accelerate each time Pete loses a case or appeal. Fewer and fewer users will participate. At some point, maybe only after he is hauled away, Pete will stop granting permission to new participants altogether. At some point after that the number of posts will dwindle almost to zero. Then, maybe a month or two later, some member of Pete's family will simply shut down the web site as a useless reminder of how Pete's life crumbled.

[Gregg]

I'm waiting for a few of the OWL club members to to get whacked in rapid succession with very bad and irreversable things happening to them.....Janiece and Knesie losing their homes within a month of each other, SubVet and Fly2eat getting all their bank accounts and slaries levied and garnished.....if you look it is actually underway already. And the sad part is because they have used their oppertunities to work with the IRS the actions, when they come will be swift and merciless. I can see someone losing the final appeal and the next day their bank accounts are siezed, salary levied, house forclosed on (and if your moirtgage holder finds out you have IRS troubles they'll call you loan) and they won't, at that time have any remedy...they can't even negotiate a payment plan after they spent all their chances at CDPH by writing "informed and correct" letters about not being employees....Think about it, the course they follow, slightly better than "ignore them and they'll go away" (well, what they're doing is "write them threateding letters and piss them off and they'll go away") is going to lead tehm to have total and complete and utterly final loss at one moment, instant street people!

[cynicalflyer]

I'm waiting for a few of the OWL club members to to get whacked in rapid succession with very bad and irreversable things happening to them.....Janiece and Knesie losing their homes within a month of each other, SubVet and Fly2eat getting all their bank accounts and slaries levied and garnished.....if you look it is actually underway already.

We can now confirm SubVet's on the way to liens and garnishments. And the countdown to Pete's loss on appeal continues. My guess, Pete's got until just about tax day 2009 to keep the scam alive.

In his first case, the docketing sequence was:

Sixth Circuit Decision Date 4/10/2007
Sixth Circuit Rehearing Denied 8/8/2007
Petition for a writ of certiorari filed 11/3/2007
Waiver of right of respondent United States to respond filed 11/26/2007
DISTRIBUTED for Conference 11/28/2007
Petition DENIED 1/7/2008
Petition for Rehearing filed 1/29/2008
DISTRIBUTED for Conference 2/6/2008
Rehearing DENIED 2/25/2008

Assuming he stays true to form and the feds again waive right to respond to petition for cert, that would work out to be roughly:

Sixth Circuit Decision Date 6/11/2008
Sixth Circuit Rehearing Denied 10/9/2008
Petition for a writ of certiorari filed 1/4/2009
Waiver of right of respondent United States to respond filed 1/27/2009
DISTRIBUTED for 2/4/09 Conference* 1/29/2009
Petition DENIED 2/4/2009
Petition for Rehearing filed 2/26/2009
DISTRIBUTED for 3/18/09 Conference* 3/6/2009
Rehearing DENIED 3/18/2009

*Conference dates derived from http://www.supremecourtus.gov/casedistr ... le2008.pdf

Assuming the Feds do file in opposition to the petition for cert, this would add another 30 days and result in the denial of the rehearing at the April 15, 2009 conference (potential delicious irony there).

[Famspear]

Any thoughts from any Quatlooos regulars on how Pete's wife (Doreen?) will fare? Will the government charge her as well? Would Pete cop a plea to save his wife from prison this time? (Isn't that what happened on his first convictions years ago?)

Unlike the "Elaine" half of "Ed and Elaine," the "Doreen" half of Pete and Doreen seems to be something of a lesser-known entity.

[Demosthenes]

I doubt the DOJ will be lenient this time around.

Remember this?

A federal grand jury investigation uncovered witnesses who testified that several members of the Metro Detroit Libertarians had a meeting to discuss the possibility of placing a device in the mail on that day to protest the tax system. The witnesses testified that this meeting included Peter Hendrickson, his girlfriend Doreen Wright, defendant Scott Scarborough and his wife Karen. The investigation also showed that Wright had taken the red phosphorus used in making the bomb from the school district at which she worked.

[Imalawman]

Any thoughts from any Quatlooos regulars on how Pete's wife (Doreen?) will fare? Will the government charge her as well? Would Pete cop a plea to save his wife from prison this time? (Isn't that what happened on his first convictions years ago?)

Unlike the "Elaine" half of "Ed and Elaine," the "Doreen" half of Pete and Doreen seems to be something of a lesser-known entity.

Depends on a lot of things, but she's likely doomed. I don't think that she'll be able to claim innocent spouse as she has been too involved in Pete's craziness. However, she might be able to avoid criminal charges, but again she's been right there with him all along, signing those returns.

In one case I had, the husband was a crazy TP, really out there, and we went after his assets (he was a successful doctor). But the wife had refused to go along with him and filed separate correct returns. As a result, she was able to protect her share of the assets.

As a side note, I think its OK for me to say now that there will be a flurry of activity on the state level against the CTC filers. I left about 4 cases on my desk and there are more in the pipeline. Other state revenue people that I talked with were also going after them more aggressively with fraud penalties and the like. Since the feds are dragging their feet the states want to get in first with liens and the like. I would expect things to pick up in CTC crackdowns.

[webhick]

It looks like bringing the LH forum to a near-halt was a group effort. More than likely thanks to the recent economic issues, the past week has been extremely quiet over there. I bob over there every couple of days to see if there's anything worth chuckling over, but it's been feeling like there's nothing new to speak of. Then a member of the forum posted about it and confirmed the suspicion.

I guess there's just not enough time in the day to screw yourself over repeatedly and stock up supplies for the economic meltdown.

[Number Six]

I contacted an untax book writer about the "voluntary" nature of the income tax, and he zealously recommended the CTC scam. I guess he'll never be in court on his book and income methods.

[cynicalflyer]

With the Pete indictment, I am bumping the poll.

[ASITStands]

Any thoughts from any Quatlooos regulars on how Pete's wife (Doreen?) will fare? Will the government charge her as well? Would Pete cop a plea to save his wife from prison this time? (Isn't that what happened on his first convictions years ago?)

Unlike the "Elaine" half of "Ed and Elaine," the "Doreen" half of Pete and Doreen seems to be something of a lesser-known entity.

Not sure how it works exactly.

My guess is Doreen will take the "innocent spouse" position. I do not think she will be compelled to testify against her husband, but I'm unsure what requirements she will face.

Maybe one of the criminal attorneys can enlighten us.

And, my guess on the forum is that Pete deletes it sooner. Why? Previous history. When someone gets close to exposing his scam, or sham legal research, he pulls the plug.

He still has the e-mail newsletter, and the main page, to solicit funds.

[Imalawman]

Way too late to pull the plug to prevent the feds from having that as a record. But it could prevent new stupidity. If we were wise (which he's not) we would indeed pull the plug on the forum and shut the hell up and speak only when his lawyer tells him.

[ASITStands]

Way too late to pull the plug to prevent the feds from having that as a record. But it could prevent new stupidity. If we were wise (which he's not) we would indeed pull the plug on the forum and shut the hell up and speak only when his lawyer tells him.

Well, look at it this way. When someone actually starts questioning whether he'll be able to convince a jury not to convict, he'll pull the plug sooner. Yes. He should remain silent.

[Gregg]

Way too late to pull the plug to prevent the feds from having that as a record. But it could prevent new stupidity. If we were wise (which he's not) we would indeed pull the plug on the forum and shut the hell up and speak only when his lawyer tells him.

Keeping his mouth shut prevents him from being a martyr and isn't good for fundraising, so even though it's not smart I think he'll keep it up. Besides, just how often has he done something because it was smart?

[notorial dissent]

Besides, just how often has he done something because it was smart?

Uh tough one, how about not in living memory!

[gezco]

Or he won't pay the annual fee to keep the site up and keep its name and then it goes dark.

I think we have a winner!

[cynicalflyer]

In light of recent events (i.e. Pete locking posting of the forum), I would say that "Pete will delete the forum later" (it has been almost a year since this August 2008 poll) wins...

[notorial dissent]

I don't think Pete's ego will let him delete, it would be an acknowledgment that he was wrong, and I just don't see him doing that.

At this juncture I think he has drunk too deeply of the Koolaid well to admit possible error. When you don't have right on your side, all you have left is bluster.