Randy White on Removing Liens

A collection of old posts from all forums. No new threads or new posts in old threads allowed. For archive use only.
LPC
Trusted Keeper of the All True FAQ
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:38 am
Location: Earth

Randy White on Removing Liens

Post by LPC »

From another thread, now locked:
John J. Bulten wrote:Randy White is very hopeful that he has discovered how to remove an illegitimate NFTL in FL, and is in the process of proving it in court. ...
Bulten is only about seven months behind on this one.

From the Lost Horizons site:
Florida warrior Randy White has crafted a powerful, easily adapted brief in connection with a Writ of Mandamus action which he shares with us here. Those facing tax agency efforts to evade the law by failing to process filed returns and other instruments, whether by the improper invocation of the 'frivolous' statute or otherwise, will find Randy's work to be highly useful;
If you follow the link (which I have preserved), you will get a document entitled "Plaintiff's Rebuttal to Motion to Dismiss" for one "John Henry Doe," which is obviously a pseudonym.

However, Randy White (or someone) was stupid enough to leave the name of the court (Middle District of Florida) and the docket number (No. 5:05-CV-518), which can be brought up on PACER, and turns out to be a real case by Gail Meyer against Mark W. Everson as Commissioner of Internal Revenue.

And Ms. Meyer filed a "Plaintiff's Rebuttal to Motion to Dismiss" on 2/24/2006, Docket #4, which seems to be identical to the document prepared by Randy White, even down to the same number for the certified mail received.

What Bulten didn't tell us (or didn't know) is that the judge ruled *against* Meyer on 9/7/2006, entering an order dismissing the complaint she had filed despite the "useful" pleading prepared by Randy White.

I'm not going to try to quote the entire opinion, but will give you the last two pages:
The final argument by the United States is that the Plaintiff’s Complaint is frivolous and premature. Specifically, the Plaintiff’s Complaint is devoid of any allegations that she has availed herself of any of the remedies set forth in the Internal Revenue Code, such as filing a petition in the Tax Court for review of any assessments, or otherwise challenged any statutory notices of deficiency, liens, or levies. See 26 U.S.C. § 6213 (providing process for petitioning Tax Court for review of assessments). Nor has the Plaintiff chosen to pay the assessed taxes and file a claim for refund, which if denied, could be reviewed in this Court. See 26 U.S.C. § 7422(a) (providing that no lawsuit seeking a refund based on an illegal assessment can be brought, without first filing a claim for refund with the Internal Revenue Service). Instead of seeking relief under either or both of these well established processes, the Plaintiff has chosen to file her Complaint, seeking relief that is barred under the legal theories described in this Order. Thus, it would appear that the Plaintiff’s Complaint is premature, frivolous, and cannot exist in this Court. See, e.g., Perkins v. United States, 314 F. Supp.2d 664 (E.D. Tex. 2004) (federal district court did not have subject matter jurisdiction over lawsuit brought by pro se taxpayers to set asked determination by IRS that they owed additional income taxes and penalties, since they did not appeal in Tax Court, and did not pay the disputed amounts and file an administrative claim for refund prior to filing suit). The Plaintiff should pursue her claims under the proper procedures provided in the Internal Revenue Code.

CONCLUSION

Because the relief the Plaintiff seeks is barred by both the Declaratory Judgment Act and the Anti-Injunction Act, and because the Plaintiff must first pursue relief under the remedies afforded by the Internal Revenue Code, the Court finds that the Plaintiff cannot state a claim for relief under any viable legal theory. The Court further finds that permitting the Plaintiff any opportunity to amend her Complaint would be fruitless. Accordingly, it is hereby ORDERED and ADJUDGED that the United States of America’s Motion to Dismiss (Doc. 3) is GRANTED, and the Plaintiff’s Complaint is DISMISSED. The Clerk is directed to enter judgment accordingly, terminate any pending motions, and close the file.

IT IS SO ORDERED.

DONE and ORDERED at Ocala, Florida this 7th day of September, 2006.
So it's a complete bust.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
jkeeb
Pirate Judge of Which Things Work
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by jkeeb »

Well...they proved one thing, the courts are corrupt.
Remember that CtC is about the rule of law.

John J. Bulten
.
Pirate Purveyor of the Last Word
Posts: 1698
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:06 am

Post by . »

Nah, it's a victory. No sanctions.
All the States incorporated daughter corporations for transaction of business in the 1960s or so. - Some voice in Van Pelt's head, circa 2006.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Post by The Observer »

Well, this raises the hurdle for David Merrill's "Go to District Court for Lien Relief." Doesn't sound like that lawyer in black robes is going to be sympathetic.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
John J. Bulten

Post by John J. Bulten »

Dan, Randy had alluded to that case, thanks for the details.

I was not referring at all to that case. You may be aware of the difference between a writ of mandamus to process filed returns, and an action to remove illegitimate liens. Will let you know how it develops.

I don't think the thread is locked for other users, you may recall why it appeared locked to you.
Quixote
Quatloosian Master of Deception
Posts: 1542
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Sanhoudalistan

Post by Quixote »

John J. Bulten wrote:Dan, Randy had alluded to that case, thanks for the details.

I was not referring at all to that case. You may be aware of the difference between a writ of mandamus to process filed returns, and an action to remove illegitimate liens. Will let you know how it develops.

I don't think the thread is locked for other users, you may recall why it appeared locked to you.
It appeared locked to him because it was and is locked. Reality is usually simple.

And thank you for not spoiling your perfect trolling record. The "case that proves I'm right, but which I won't give you any details about because it would show be up for the [fool, liar] I am" is a classic troll tool.
"Here is a fundamental question to ask yourself- what is the goal of the income tax scam? I think it is a means to extract wealth from the masses and give it to a parasite class." Skankbeat
John J. Bulten

Post by John J. Bulten »

Thanks, Quixote, you're right that I misread which thread I thought had been locked.

I am respecting Randy's wishes as to when and what things will be divulged. I made the announcement at http://losthorizons.com/forum3/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1452 , but there's nothing to add to what I said there at this time.
Joey Smith
Infidel Enslaver
Posts: 895
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:57 pm

Post by Joey Smith »

Will let you know how it develops.
No suspense on our side; it's like watching the ten o'clock replay of an accident witnessed live.
- - - - - - - - - - -
"The real George Washington was shot dead fairly early in the Revolution." ~ David Merrill, 9-17-2004 --- "This is where I belong" ~ Heidi Guedel, 7-1-2006 (referring to suijuris.net)
- - - - - - - - - - -
LPC
Trusted Keeper of the All True FAQ
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:38 am
Location: Earth

Post by LPC »

John J. Bulten wrote:I was not referring at all to that case. You may be aware of the difference between a writ of mandamus to process filed returns, and an action to remove illegitimate liens. Will let you know how it develops.
No you won't. You're lying again.

You won't tell us us the name of the case, the docket number, or any other information that would allow us to check to see whether or not there really is any such case, and we're supposed to believe that you're going to tell us when it goes down in flames?

Why do you even bother to pretend to tell the truth?
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
LPC
Trusted Keeper of the All True FAQ
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:38 am
Location: Earth

Post by LPC »

Quixote wrote:And thank you [John J. Bulten] for not spoiling your perfect trolling record. The "case that proves I'm right, but which I won't give you any details about because it would show be up for the [fool, liar] I am" is a classic troll tool.
The lurkers support him in emails.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 7624
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:39 pm

Post by wserra »

John J. Bulten wrote:I am respecting Randy's wishes as to when and what things will be divulged. I made the announcement at http://losthorizons.com/forum3/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1452 , but there's nothing to add to what I said there at this time.
How about adding this to it?

You wrote on Lost in Space that
I am permitted to say that he is currently overseeing 4 actions for declaratory judgment in re federal tax (3 of which have been fully served, with 1 in process), and that the cases are moving forward as hoped within reasonable timeframes. We just received the information yesterday that 1 case has made a favorably significant procedural step forward.
Now, the rules of practice in Florida provide
10-2.1(a)(2) It shall constitute the unlicensed practice of law for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to offer or provide legal services directly to the public or for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to use the title paralegal, legal assistant, or other similar term in providing legal services or legal forms preparation services directly to the public.
and
10-2.1(b) Paralegal or Legal Assistant. A paralegal or legal assistant is a person qualified by education, training, or work experience, who works under the supervision of a member of The Florida Bar and who performs specifically delegated substantive legal work for which a member of The Florida Bar is responsible.
So: who is the Florida lawyer who is supervising the work of your buddy Randy White? If there isn't one, White is committing UPL.

There is actually a way to complain about such things.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
Nikki

Post by Nikki »

wserra wrote:So: who is the Florida lawyer who is supervising the work of your buddy Randy White?
LawyerDude?
David Merrill

Post by David Merrill »

wserra wrote:
John J. Bulten wrote:I am respecting Randy's wishes as to when and what things will be divulged. I made the announcement at http://losthorizons.com/forum3/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1452 , but there's nothing to add to what I said there at this time.
How about adding this to it?

You wrote on Lost in Space that
I am permitted to say that he is currently overseeing 4 actions for declaratory judgment in re federal tax (3 of which have been fully served, with 1 in process), and that the cases are moving forward as hoped within reasonable timeframes. We just received the information yesterday that 1 case has made a favorably significant procedural step forward.
Now, the rules of practice in Florida provide
10-2.1(a)(2) It shall constitute the unlicensed practice of law for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to offer or provide legal services directly to the public or for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to use the title paralegal, legal assistant, or other similar term in providing legal services or legal forms preparation services directly to the public.
and
10-2.1(b) Paralegal or Legal Assistant. A paralegal or legal assistant is a person qualified by education, training, or work experience, who works under the supervision of a member of The Florida Bar and who performs specifically delegated substantive legal work for which a member of The Florida Bar is responsible.
So: who is the Florida lawyer who is supervising the work of your buddy Randy White? If there isn't one, White is committing UPL.

There is actually a way to complain about such things.


How about the statutes for impersonating a clown?



Regards,

David Merrill.
User avatar
The Observer
Further Moderator
Posts: 7559
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:48 pm
Location: Virgin Islands Gunsmith

Post by The Observer »

David Merrill wrote:How about the statutes for impersonating a clown?
Why? Were you convicted for this as well?
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
User avatar
wserra
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Quatloosian Federal Witness
Posts: 7624
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:39 pm

Post by wserra »

The Observer wrote:
David Merrill wrote:How about the statutes for impersonating a clown?
Why? Were you convicted for this as well?
Nah. No impersonation was necessary. Van Pelt is the real deal.
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
John J. Bulten

Post by John J. Bulten »

Florida Bar wrote:10-2.1(a)(2) It shall constitute the unlicensed practice of law for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to offer or provide legal services directly to the public or for a person who does not meet the definition of paralegal or legal assistant as set forth elsewhere in these rules to use the title paralegal, legal assistant, or other similar term in providing legal services or legal forms preparation services directly to the public .... 10-2.1(b) Paralegal or Legal Assistant. A paralegal or legal assistant is a person qualified by education, training, or work experience, who works under the supervision of a member of The Florida Bar and who performs specifically delegated substantive legal work for which a member of The Florida Bar is responsible.
It is my understanding that Randy's ordinary services do not include either "legal services", or "legal forms preparation services" using the title paralegal, legal assistant, or other similar term. Though I may have been mistaken in believing he offered "paralegal services", I am quite certain that were he to provide preparation services using the title paralegal, he would of course obey the relevant laws.
Paul

Post by Paul »

using the title paralegal, legal assistant, or other similar term.
The "wisdom" of a true tax protestor! Show him a law that says you can't perform some service without being a qualified paralegal, and his response shows that he thinks the violation is for using the title paralegal.