Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

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Famspear
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Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Famspear »

Pete Hendrickson reacts at losthorizons:
mutter, I'm sorry to see you go. Here are two passages (from http://www.losthorizons.com/Intro.pdf) that might be helpful for you to keep in mind going forward. The first is a reminder that if "it" ends up functioning as a capitation, but isn't apportioned, that's all you need to know-- your inability to understand or explain any of the mechanics doesn't matter (nor does your inability to understand that all those "mechanics" apply within the context of what DOES qualify as "income", but not outside that context). The second provides some elaboration on the "includes" subject, among which are two Supreme Court rulings explicitly addressing the definition of that term given in 7701.

***

It is clear that were the distinct, limited meaning of the “income” subject to the “income tax” to be eroded away, and the tax come to be applied to “all that comes in”, it would be, and would have to be recognized as, a direct tax. The United States Supreme Court explicitly declares in its 1916 ruling in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (while specifically considering the limited meaning and effect of the 16th Amendment) that should the tax ever come to exceed its proper boundaries,
“the duty would arise to disregard form [that is, any pretense by which it is made to appear that the tax is being confined to its proper limits when it is not, such as by creatively construing the meaning of “income”, or the use of any pretense, scheme or construction by which non-specialized revenue or activities are made to appear otherwise so as to be subjected to the tax] and consider substance alone [that is, what the tax is actually falling upon as a practical reality], and hence subject the tax to the regulation as to apportionment which otherwise as an excise would not apply to it.”

But, of course, the law behind the tax never has exceeded those boundaries. This is why the very tax which is administered today, on the same activities as it is administered today-- without apportionment, and without any pretense of relief of the apportionment rule, such as is inaccurately ascribed to the 16th Amendment-- could be laid and administered for decades BEFORE that amendment, and yet be upheld by the United States Supreme Court.
http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 3069#13069

Just as an aside: The federal income tax is not now required, nor has it ever been required, to be imposed only on "activities" in order to be valid. The realization of income is an event. Many or even most realizations of income do occur in connection with an "activity", but there is not now nor has there ever been a legal requirement that there be an "activity."

Further, there is not now, nor has there ever been, a legal requirement that there be an activity in connection with the exercise of a privilege, federal or otherwise.

After the Sixteenth Amendment, no federal income tax is required to be apportioned -- regardless of whether that tax is deemed, or ever was deemed, to be direct or indirect. Period. Now, go found a federal court case where someone argued otherwise, and the court ruled in that person's favor on that issue. You will not find one.
***

By virtue of the statutory definition of “includes”-- another custom legal term deployed in the definitions of both of “wages” and “trade or business”, both of these terms are amenable to a narrowly limited potential expansion to cover other things of the same class (legal character) as those already listed, but nothing else. “Includes” is defined within the law as follows:
“Includes and including: The terms ''includes'' and ''including'' when used in a definition contained in this title shall not be deemed to exclude other things otherwise within the meaning of the term defined.” Rev. Act of 1938 §901(b) (Codified at 26 USC 7701(c).)

The Department of the Treasury has helpfully clarified the meaning of this provision with the following regulatory language:
“The terms “includes and including” do not exclude things not enumerated which are in the same general class;”

as has the United States Supreme Court:
“[T]he verb "includes" imports a general class, some of whose particular instances are those specified in the definition. This view finds support in § 2(b) of the Act, which reads: "The terms 'includes' and 'including,' when used in a definition contained in this title, shall not be deemed to exclude other things otherwise within the meaning of the term defined.”” Helvering v Morgan’s, Inc, 293 U.S. 121, 126 fn. 1 (1934)

The court refers to and re-iterates this observation in Federal Land Bank of St. Paul v. Bismarck Lumber Co. 314 U.S. 95, 62 S.Ct. 1 U.S. 1941:
ncluding... ...connotes simply an illustrative application of the general principle."

(That is, the enumerated items in a definition in which “including” [or "includes", which is identically defined by statute] is deployed "illustrate"-- identify, and thus establish-- the contours of the class which the defined term represents-- the "general principle" of its application).

The principle involved in the “includes” mechanism is largely that described by the Supreme Court in Gustafson v. Alloyd Co. (93-404), 513 US 561 (1995):
“…a word is known by the company it keeps (the doctrine of noscitur a sociis). This rule we rely upon to avoid ascribing to one word a meaning so broad that it is inconsistent with its accompanying words, thus giving “unintended breadth to the Acts of Congress.”

clarified by these additional, related rulings:
“When a statute includes an explicit definition, we must follow that definition, even if it varies from that term's ordinary meaning.” Stenberg v. Carhart, 530 U.S. 914 (2000)


OK, Pete, this where you really start drifting off into the weeds.

“It is axiomatic that the statutory definition of the term excludes unstated meanings of that term.” U.S. Supreme Court, Meese v. Keene, 481 U.S. 465 (1987)


Here, Pete is trying to lead us to the false conclusion that this verbiage can support Pete's own intepretation of "includes and including" in section 7701 of the Internal Revenue Code. Pete is wrong.

“Of course, statutory definitions of terms used therein prevail over colloquial meanings. Fox v. Standard Oil Co., 294 U.S. 87, 95, 55 S.Ct. 333, 336.” Western Union Telegraph Co. v. Lenroot, 323 U.S. 490 (1945)

These rulings reflect the fact that when a word becomes a statutorily-defined “term”, its original meaning is entirely stripped away and replaced with the new meaning described. This is why, for instance, the definition of “employee” we looked at earlier explicitly lists “federal employees”. Despite being identically spelled and pronounced, the statutorily-defined-term doesn’t mean “those who work for a boss”, or whatever dictionary definition you might find for the common word ‘employee’ ( by virtue of which federal employees would have been encompassed without being listed); nor does it mean “those who work for a boss” plus the listed persons or types. It only means what the enumerated list describes-- in this case, persons working for the federal government or its subordinate entities, under a variety of different labels and in a variety of different capacities. The meaning of the defined-term “employee” can be considered to cover others not listed who also work for the federal government or its subordinate entities (and who are thus within the class established by the existing list), but no one else. These rules and statutory practices play an important role in preventing the “income” tax from functioning as a de facto capitation.


(bolding added).

No, they don't Pete.

Go look for a federal court case where a taxpayer argued that his private-sector, non-federally privileged compensation for personal services (or however you want to word it, Pete) was not properly the subject of the U.S. federal income tax, and the court ruled that this argument was correct.

This is not Pete's finest hour, but in fairness we should point out that Pete has a lot of worries right now.
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LPC
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by LPC »

ForumAdmin, aka Peter Hendrickson wrote:It is clear that were the distinct, limited meaning of the “income” subject to the “income tax” to be eroded away, and the tax come to be applied to “all that comes in”, it would be, and would have to be recognized as, a direct tax.
Not necessarily. For example, the DC Circuit ruled in the Murphy case that, even if the amounts received by Ms. Murphy were not "income," the receipt could still be taxed as a valid excise, and so the imposition of a tax on the receipt was constitutional even though labeled as an "income tax."

Similarly, gifts and inheritances are not considered to be income, and yet the taxes on gifts and estates have been specifically ruled to be constitutional excises.

Finally, and most importantly, the general statement that "not everything that comes in is income" does not explain why the compensation you receive for your labor is not income.
ForumAdmin, aka Peter Hendrickson wrote:The United States Supreme Court explicitly declares in its 1916 ruling in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (while specifically considering the limited meaning and effect of the 16th Amendment) that should the tax ever come to exceed its proper boundaries,
“the duty would arise to disregard form [that is, any pretense by which it is made to appear that the tax is being confined to its proper limits when it is not, such as by creatively construing the meaning of “income”, or the use of any pretense, scheme or construction by which non-specialized revenue or activities are made to appear otherwise so as to be subjected to the tax] and consider substance alone [that is, what the tax is actually falling upon as a practical reality], and hence subject the tax to the regulation as to apportionment which otherwise as an excise would not apply to it.”
PH has inserted a lot of words into that "quotation" and has ignored what the Supreme Court said before and after the quoted words. Let's look at the quotation in context. (What PH has quoted is in blue, and what he wants us to ignore is in red.)
Supreme Court wrote:Moreover, in addition, the conclusion reached in the Pollock Case did not in any degree involve holding that income taxes generically and necessarily came within the class of direct taxes on property, but, on the contrary, recognized the fact that taxation on income was in its nature an excise entitled to be enforced as such unless and until it was concluded that to enforce it would amount to accomplishing the result which the requirement as to apportionment of direct taxation was adopted to prevent, in which case the duty would arise to disregard form and consider substance alone, and hence subject the tax to the regulation as to apportionment which otherwise as an excise would not apply to it. Nothing could serve to make this clearer than to recall that in the Pollock Case, in so far as the law taxed incomes from other classes of property than real estate and invested personal property, that is, income from 'professions, trades, employments, or vocations' (158 U.S. 637), its validity was recognized; indeed, it was expressly declared that no dispute was made upon that subject, and attention was called to the fact that taxes on such income had been sustained as excise taxes in the past. Id. p. 635. The whole law was, however, declared unconstitutional on the ground that to permit it to thus operate would relieve real estate and invested personal property from taxation and 'would leave the burden of the tax to be borne by professions, trades, employments, or vacations; and in that way what was intended as a tax on capital would remain, in substance, a tax on occupations and labor' ( id. p. 637),-a result which, it was held, could not have been contemplated by Congress.
So the Supreme Court expressly declared that (1) taxation of income is in its nature an excise and (2) a tax on incomes from "occupations and labor" is--and always has been--a constitutional excise.

The Brushaber decision itself says that PH is wrong.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Imalawman »

It is also axiomatic that a person on trial for criminal charges shouldn't post on public forums posting the very arguments he's being tried in a criminal court for putting into practice. His lawyer has an ass for a client. Can you imagine if you learned your client was posting like this on a public forum during the time you're trying to get his case dismissed?!?! Pete is BEYOND stupid. wow.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Nikki »

Pete has been exceptionally cooperative with tax- and law-enforcement authorities over the past few years.

Not only has he provided clear targets from his adherants for civil and criminal tax enforcement, but he is providing the Department of Justice with increasingly significant evidence to undermine any possible Cheek defense he mounts.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by ASITStands »

Being BEYOND stupid is in the realm of arrogance.

He believes he's right, and therefore, he's infallible and cannot be touched.

What does it say about pride going before destruction?

It's sad to say, but I believe this just about seals his destiny. And, as for any Cheek defense, that was gone long time ago. This is just another example of why it was gone.

EDIT: 'LPC' That answers that. Thanks. Pretty simple once you actually read the case.

I'm saying this for the newcomers among us who may still be trying to figure it all out.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Red Cedar PM »

"Pride comes before the fall."

--Dantonio 11:3:07

Image
"Pride cometh before thy fall."

--Dantonio 11:03:07
Grixit wrote:Hey Diller: forget terms like "wages", "income", "derived from", "received", etc. If you did something, and got paid for it, you owe tax.
mutter

Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by mutter »

Imalawman wrote:It is also axiomatic that a person on trial for criminal charges shouldn't post on public forums posting the very arguments he's being tried in a criminal court for putting into practice. His lawyer has an ass for a client. Can you imagine if you learned your client was posting like this on a public forum during the time you're trying to get his case dismissed?!?! Pete is BEYOND stupid. wow.
yea and I am the stupid coward?
message to PH and Mooney. The one thing no one could ever accuse me of is not understanding.
I am a walking library. I have studied and understood almost every science there is. (Except spelling and grammar :D ) Dozens of people come to me for council on every concevible area of humanity. I literally understand how the universe works on a quantum level, so my capasity to understand can NOT be questioned.
Neither could my courage or honor by anyone who actually knows me! I spent 4 years in the army as a combat engineer. One of my tasks was to search for imprivised explosives in vehicles etc coming onto post. cowards dont look for bombs to disarm so others dont get killed. I did so in a leadership capasity as well.
I will not only be more than happy to duel anyone who wishes to test my cowardise I will even lend you the sword to do it with
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by webhick »

mutter wrote:I will not only be more than happy to duel anyone who wishes to test my cowardise I will even lend you the sword to do it with
Real men duel with rabid gerbils. En garde!
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mutter

Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by mutter »

webhick wrote:
mutter wrote:I will not only be more than happy to duel anyone who wishes to test my cowardise I will even lend you the sword to do it with
Real men duel with rabid gerbils. En garde!
Now that would make a great comedy sketch, but where would we get the gerbils?
We so need to party, I love that twisted sense of humor.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Thule »

webhick wrote: Real men duel with rabid gerbils. En garde!
I've always been partial to the old 'pillowcase stuffed with wolverines' as a way to resolve conflicts.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by webhick »

Thule wrote:
webhick wrote: Real men duel with rabid gerbils. En garde!
I've always been partial to the old 'pillowcase stuffed with wolverines' as a way to resolve conflicts.
The Wolverpus gets very upset when people abuse his cousins.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Thule »

webhick wrote: The Wolverpus gets very upset when people abuse his cousins.
True. However, it takes something like 1,38 seconds before the abused turns into the abusee.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by webhick »

mutter wrote:
webhick wrote:
mutter wrote:I will not only be more than happy to duel anyone who wishes to test my cowardise I will even lend you the sword to do it with
Real men duel with rabid gerbils. En garde!
Now that would make a great comedy sketch, but where would we get the gerbils?
Easy. I breed them in the coin operated candy dispenser at work. Just insert a quarter, make a selection, and a chittering little bastard gets pushed off his perch and down into the retrieval cubby. From there, you can stick your hand in and attempt to free him from his metal and plastic enclosure, or just wait until he shoots out in a rage and tries to gnaw your knee caps off. It's your choice, really. But make sure you make it fast or you're gonna end up with a face full of rodent and a lot of "hot date" jokes.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Imalawman »

webhick wrote:Easy. I breed them in the coin operated candy dispenser at work. Just insert a quarter, make a selection, and a chittering little bastard gets pushed off his perch and down into the retrieval cubby. From there, you can stick your hand in and attempt to free him from his metal and plastic enclosure, or just wait until he shoots out in a rage and tries to gnaw your knee caps off. It's your choice, really. But make sure you make it fast or you're gonna end up with a face full of rodent and a lot of "hot date" jokes.
Ah, Webhick on Monday mornings.....always a good choice.
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mutter

Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by mutter »

Of course My ID on LH no longer works
Nothing like posting something and then not allowing me to rebut
Oh and Mooney if you think you know anything about the power of my soul---we can duel on the astral as well. any time any dimension
Last edited by mutter on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by webhick »

mutter wrote:Of course My ID on LH no longer works
Nothing like posting something and then not allowing me to rebut
Oh and Mooney if you think you know anything about the power of my soul---we can duel on the astral as well. any time any place
You've just met Hendrickson's pet: Banny McBanBan. ALL DISSENTERS MUST BE SILENCED!
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by mutter »

CaptainKickback wrote:
mutter wrote:Of course My ID on LH no longer works
Nothing like posting something and then not allowing me to rebut
Oh and Mooney if you think you know anything about the power of my soul---we can duel on the astral as well. any time any place
If you go that route, may I recommend Pres. Andrew Jackson as your second.

And mutter, you have hit upon one of the big problems a lot of us here have with LH, no dissenting opinions are allowed. This leads to a one note sight, where only a small part of the much larger tableaux is seen.

Here, it can be messy, chaotic, even rancorous, but you will see a variety of opinions and facts backed up with citations and exact quotes. LH is like chicken broth and this is like a complex ragout.
Jackson is one of my favorite Pres. cos he beat the crap out of the guy who tried to assasinate him with his cane. He was in his 60s or early 70's I think
Yes I noted that some time ago. If your theories or beliefs cant stand up to some critisism then youve got an issue.
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Demosthenes »

mutter wrote:Of course My ID on LH no longer works
Yet another symptom of the cult mentaily on LH.
Demo.
mutter

Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by mutter »

Demosthenes wrote:
mutter wrote:Of course My ID on LH no longer works
Yet another symptom of the cult mentaily on LH.
If the SCOTUS case PH cites did over rule 7701 congress would be forced(?) to change 7701. that has not happened, to my knowledge.
If he beleives that then why doesnt he follow his own advice, use some of those donations, and file a Writ Of Mandamus to force Congress to do their jobs and change 7701?
Or am I being to logical?
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Re: Hendrickson says he's "sorry" to see Mutter go

Post by Joey Smith »

Too logical.

Pete's only real motivation is money, i.e., selling his wares. Anything that would interfere with that -- such as a mere suggestion that he might be wrong on even the smallest point, no matter how obvious the error -- will immediately be silenced and the speaker banished.

Paytriotism at its finest.
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