Patrick Mooney says he's not answering Mutter

[Famspear]

Patrick Michael Mooney now responds to Mutter by asserting that he not writing his post to answer Mutter:

I'm not writing this post to answer "mutter", as much as to continue to encourage others who are still committed to FIGHTING for the truth and the rule of law.

Mr. Mutter is basically parrotting the Quatloos argument that because a court will not consider the law, the case is therefore unwinnable, in practical terms. This contention must be checked, however, by the fact that neither Pete or myself have ever had the opportunity to present our cases in front of a jury. At some point, this will have to happen.

If it does not happen, then you have EXPLICIT confirmation that we Americans are now living in a POLICE STATE.

If you want to accept that kind of way of life, then let me pass on a big
'SCREW YOU" to you, along with my best wishes for a happy, TV and Meds kind of life.

I follow Pete "into the breach" because I believe that his contention that we are a nation of laws is worth fighting for. According to that law:

1) The Feds can't collect a capitation tax unless it is apportioned.
2) The Feds can collect an EXCISE tax only if I choose to engage in taxable behavior.

http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... 3070#13070

No, Patrick there is no requirement that for the Feds to collect an excise in the CONSTITUTIONAL LAW sense in which you are using that term, you must have chosen to engage in taxable behavior. That's the old, frivolous "activity" argument. Now go find a case where a federal court ruled that the feds can collect the Federal income tax ONLY where you have chosen to engage in taxable behavior.

If your right to work, in order to support your existence as a Sovereign individual, is taxable, then you are a SLAVE. There is no way to dance around that with argument or logic.

There is no such thing as a "Sovereign individual" in the sense in which you are using the term, Patrick. And the sovereign-slave argument has already been rejected in court. The only person "dancing" around is you, here. Ineffectually, I might add.

I am not a slave. And will challenge any supposed "authority" that tries to make me one.

See my previous comment.

To that end, I am willing to pay the ULTIMATE PRICE if I have to.

What you are saying, Mr. Mutter, is that you are not willing to pay that price.

This is a measure of the quality of your soul and its power. There is no shame in admitting that you don't have the guts to see this through. Many times I have been depressed going through this process, but I pick myself up again because MY LIFE AND MY FREEDOM are worth it, as is the eventual freedom that will be enjoyed by others when our work as Warriors is done.

Depressed? I would suggest seeing a doctor, Patrick.

To all the other warriors that have spent energy trying to dissuade Mr. Mutter from his course, you should be commended for your effots. But if a man is here to tear down what is now an obvious truth, then let him scream til his hearts content as he bounces off the walls of the asylum that he helped to pay for.

I would suggest that you see a doctor, Patrick.

For the rest of you, seeing this latest version of the corrupt Congress agree to another financial death blow to our Republic, what choice do you have but to rise up in resistance to this unholy monster?

Happy Saturday!

Yes, it is a happy Saturday -- for some of us.

[ASITStands]

Does ULTIMATE PRICE mean housing with Ed Brown, and company, or something more?

EDIT: Having read Patrick's cases, I feel truly sorry for him. However, he has to come to his senses before he can be helped out of the ULTIMATE MESS he'll find himself in some day.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Pa-thetic.

Mutter, I hope now you see what delusional morons inhabit Lost Horizons and that you've done better to extricate yourself from them.

They're on borrowed time - they just don't know it yet.

[wserra]

If it does not happen, then you have EXPLICIT confirmation that we Americans are now living in a POLICE STATE.
...
If your right to work, in order to support your existence as a Sovereign individual, is taxable, then you are a SLAVE.

These people really need to tell this crap to one of the remaining Holocaust survivors.

[Famspear]

User continentalarmy at losthorizons writes to Patrick Mooney:

Patrick,

I just was reading the link on the Quatloos website. I was not familiar with your particular case. But I had seen a Tax Court judgment of which you were "subject."

I personally want to thank you for your efforts, and your courage to fight that which is obviously true.

I assume this is a typo -- or a Freudian slip. Patrick is definitely fighting AGAINST that which is obviously true.

I think the Quatloos guys are taking a "practical" approach, and that is one of surrender.

We are taking the practical approach. We tell people what the law is, and we expose scams. Peter Hendrickson is running a tax scam. You, continentalarmy, appear to be participating.

There are too many things they refuse to address.

Good grief, do you even read our posts? Mutter and MN Stix have the character to come over here and discuss things rationally. Obviously, Peter Hendrickson has stated that he will not allow us to go over there and post.

If one is completely honest with oneself, he or she should be able to see that the whole thing is IN FACT a scam, and now it has been found out.

The scam is Cracking the Code. We expose the scam. I know this is hard for you to understand or accept, continentalarmy, but you have been scammed by Peter Hendrickson in a very big way.

Their argument of, "Well, if Mooney and Hendrickson were right, it would have been acknowledged by a judge" is complete BS.

No, it's not BS. It's the way the American legal system works. The law is what the courts rule the law to be.

I've spoken with CPAs, Tax Attorneys, as well as a State (Union) Supreme Court Judge, who by the way, after 5 minutes, stopped me and told me I was speaking about things that were way above his knowledge level.
IMAGINE THAT!!! A State Supreme Court Judge did not even know the basics about the Constitution and Taxation!! This is not a lie or an exaggeration!!!

I suspect that the persons to which you refer were speaking of the Cracking the Code scam. That's what you were presenting to them.

CLUE TO CONTINENTAL ARMY: AS SURPRISING AS IT MAY SEEM, THE VAST MAJORITY OF TAX ATTORNEYS AND CPAs KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL ASPECTS OF FEDERAL INCOME TAXATION. AND THERE'S NOTHING REALLY WRONG WITH THAT, BECAUSE IN THE REAL WORLD THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES RARELY COME UP. IN THE REAL WORLD OF TAX PRACTICE, THIS IS AN EXTREME FRINGE AREA. AND VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN MAKE MONEY IN A TAX PRACTICE DEVOTED TO THE STUDY OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL, STATUTORY AND CASE LAW PROVISIONS THAT WOULD ENLIGHTEN THEM AS TO EXACTLY WHY CRACKING THE CODE IS A COMPLETE SCAM.

Most tax practitioners would simply dismiss your verbiage -- and correctly so -- even without having all the technical knowledge to explain exactly why you are wrong, which you surely are. I myself did not begin studying this until about 1999.

THIS IS A HOBBY FOR ME - A VERY ENJOYABLE ONE. But don't kid yourself, continentalarmy. Your belief about federal income taxation -- Pete Hendrickson's belief about federal income taxation -- is the equivalent, in the world of science and astronomy, to a belief that The Moon Is Made of Green Cheese. There are any number of people here at Quatloos who can run circles around you, and Pete Hendrickson, and anyone else over there, in the discussion of this topic. Pete is not up to it, and you aren't, either.

I was blown away, and came to the conclusion that this is a constructive conspiracy of collective ignorance, exacerbated by mass cowardice by those who flaunt their degrees and "expertise" by taking the side of the "point favorite," a corrupt government system that no longer serves the people, but banking and corporate interests. Their souls are dark because they lack the ability to discern the truth in the face of certain persecution.

Baloney. Sell it to Pete Hendrickson.

Patrick . . . to you and Pete, and everyone else on this forum . . . I salute you for your efforts and pray God's blessing for you and yours in what is to be a certain time of darkness and tyranny in our country and her people.

I also pray for all of you. I pray that you pull yourselves out of your delusion.

I'm not sure how many Christians post on this site. Certainly more than on Quatloos, as their rudeness is evidence of their character. But, this tyranny and persecution is to be expected by those who wield the truth and speak it boldly!

Baloney.

And engaging in the scam in which you are engaged has nothing to do with Christianity or being a Christian.

[Nikki]

Consider the following possibility:

The IRS pays a bounty to people who turn in tax evaders.

Pete has a great deal of information concerning a number of tax evaders.

Could he be getting a percentage of all of those $5,000 penalties?

[LPC]

Mr. Mutter is basically parrotting the Quatloos argument that because a court will not consider the law, the case is therefore unwinnable, in practical terms. This contention must be checked, however, by the fact that neither Pete or myself have ever had the opportunity to present our cases in front of a jury. At some point, this will have to happen.

Be careful what you wish for, because you only get the right to present your case to the jury in a criminal trial. Is criminal charges and a criminal trial what you think "will have to happen"? Isn't that something you'd rather avoid?

Hendrickson could have gotten a jury trial when the government sued him for the "erroneous refunds" if Hendrickson could have pointed to one (just one) factual dispute with the government. But he couldn't. He admitted that he got money for working for Personnel Management, and that was enough for the judge to rule that his arguments were wrong as a matter of law.

And that's what "the rule of law" means. Judges applying the law uniformly and consistently. Everyone who has made Hendrickson's arguments have lost, Hendrickson has lost, and everyone who continues to make Hendrickson's arguments will also lose. That's the rule of law at work.

[Judge Roy Bean]

....

I am not a slave. And will challenge any supposed "authority" that tries to make me one.

Hey Patrick - you're already a slave to ignorance dude. Hope the people around you that you're setting up to join you in your self-made disaster don't try to take it out on you and your immediate family when the consequences of YOUR actions impose themselves on their world.

Some of the people I know wouldn't rely on the courts to get even; you must have a lot of faith that victims of Hendrickson's scheme aren't really all that bad-a**. The instigators of riots rarely pay the price the rioters do until they run into the rubes later.

Ever been to a property auction in your county? Ever seen the vultures at the property sales that take advantage of people who have gone off into your kind of lunacy? Even if it isn't a tax lien, the inability to pay the mortgage because of stupid tax maneuvers winds up with the same result.

Let me give you a hint - they don't give a rat's a** about the victims or what goofy scheme the victim fell in with that resulted in being tossed out of the property. The buyers are cold-blooded opportunists looking for quick profits. And the local constabulary is there backing them up. The losers that you think should be your gladiators are VICTIMS of people like you and Pete.

Pete has and will destroy the financial lives of a lot of people for his own self aggrandizement. His victims and their families will suffer. Got that Patrick? He won't pay the price they do even if his sorry a** winds up behind bars.

Have fun with that. Pray you don't show up on this side of the Pecos. What goes 'round comes 'round kinda quick in these parts.

[Joe Dirt]

I have two questions that just scampered through my mind.

1. Other than peddling his "method" does Pete Hendrickson even have a job?

2. Is he married and/or have a family to support?

Just curious..........

He's a professional fundraiser... from his LH site:

GET INVOLVED!!

DONATIONS ARE SORELY NEEDED TO FINANCE A LEGAL A-TEAM THAT CAN REALLY SLAP BACK!!

Any amount you can afford will help.

Make them here, or by mail to Pete Hendrickson, 232 Oriole Rd., Commerce Twp., MI 48382.

[webhick]

I have two questions that just scampered through my mind.

1. Other than peddling his "method" does Pete Hendrickson even have a job?

2. Is he married and/or have a family to support?

Just curious..........

He's a professional fundraiser... from his LH site:

GET INVOLVED!!

DONATIONS ARE SORELY NEEDED TO FINANCE A LEGAL A-TEAM THAT CAN REALLY SLAP BACK!!

Any amount you can afford will help.

Make them here, or by mail to Pete Hendrickson, 232 Oriole Rd., Commerce Twp., MI 48382.

Great. Now all I can picture is a bunch of lawyers bitch-slapping each other. Next thing you know the Supreme Court will be pulling hair and scratching each other.

I WILL CUT YOU, BE-YATCH! STAY 'WAY FROM MY MAN!

ETA: Then picture Hendrickson sitting there with his pimp stick, fur coat, multiple articles of bling, and a big ole pimp hat.

[Imalawman]

ETA: Then picture Hendrickson sitting there with his pimp stick, fur coat, multiple articles of bling, and a big ole pimp hat.

I see Kramer strutting down the street...

[Thule]

GET INVOLVED!!

DONATIONS ARE SORELY NEEDED TO FINANCE A LEGAL A-TEAM THAT CAN REALLY SLAP BACK!!

Any amount you can afford will help.

Make them here, or by mail to Pete Hendrickson, 232 Oriole Rd., Commerce Twp., MI 48382.

Hmmm, would be interesting to see how that money is spent, how much goes towards lawyers, and how much is spent to keep The Petester stocked up on Pop-Tarts and Kool-Aid.

But then, Pete is of course the very source of wisdom, the most learned of all. So I guess that on certain levels, Pete is entitled to all the money.

And there you have it; Pete Hendrickson - a legal A-Team of 1

[LPC]

I have two questions that just scampered through my mind.

1. Other than peddling his "method" does Pete Hendrickson even have a job?

2. Is he married and/or have a family to support?

Just curious..........

Adapted from the government's brief to the 6th Circuit:

During 2002 and 2003, Hendrickson was employed by Personnel Management, Inc., for which employment he was paid a salary. PM issued Forms W-2 Wage and Tax Statements reporting to Hendrickson and to the IRS the following salary and withholding amounts:

Year Salary Inc.Tax SSTax Med.Tax
2002 $58,965 $5,642.20 $3,655.83 $854.93
2003 60,608 5,620.02 3,757.60 878.72

Doreen Hendrickson (his wife) was paid non-employee compensation ($3,773 for 2002 and $3,188 for 2003) by Una Dworkin, who reported the compensation on Forms 1099.

[Imalawman]

The sad thing here is that if he's married and perhaps has kids his effective tax rate on $60,000 would be about 8%. Now he's going to end up paying about 70-85% effective rates with interest, penalties, and sanctions. Not too mention the financial devastation that will come with a felony conviction. Sure makes me want to follow CTC. Wow!

[Thule]

The sad thing here is that if he's married and perhaps has kids his effective tax rate on $60,000 would be about 8%. Now he's going to end up paying about 70-85% effective rates with interest, penalties, and sanctions. Not too mention the financial devastation that will come with a felony conviction. Sure makes me want to follow CTC. Wow!

But as SubVet and others wants us to believe; "It's not about the money"

[Gregg]

Has anyone ever looked into what he makes selling the book?

[Demosthenes]

Has anyone ever looked into what he makes selling the book?

The IRS has.

[Famspear]

Has anyone ever looked into what he makes selling the book?

The IRS has.

Wait a minute. He DID report all his book sales on his federal income tax returns, didn't he?

Or did he?

Gee, I hope he didn't make a boo-boo.

[Gregg]

Has anyone ever looked into what he makes selling the book?

The IRS has.

Wait a minute. He DID report all his book sales on his federal income tax returns, didn't he?

Or did he?

Gee, I hope he didn't make a boo-boo.

Now, even by Pete's special rules, the royalties on his copyright protected book would be taxable income, or it would seem to me. Unless he has a reason why income from a copyright isn't a federal privilege.

[RyanMcC]

Wait a minute. He DID report all his book sales on his federal income tax returns, didn't he?

Or did he?

Gee, I hope he didn't make a boo-boo.

If he followed his own theories then I'm sure he didn't report a penny from his book sales. Why go to the trouble to rebut W-2s and 1099s when you are going to self-report the rest of your income?

If he truly believes that "Trade or Business" means the performance of the functions of a public office then why on earth would he report it? In fact, if he did report it wouldn't that just show he didn't really believe the crap he was peddling and that he knew the actual meaning of "Trade or Business" (and "wages", "employee", ect)?

He's kind of damned if he did and damned if he didn't..