http://www.losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewt ... c&start=45Now we are the target of the 'levy at work' in this thread...
The other day my wife got a letter 668-W in the mail, they are attempting to 'levy' by notice for the $5000 civil penalty only. This was put on hold, via phone, twice, but now they must have changed their mind. I have been feverishly printing and modding documents and files I previously organized into a 'levy and distraint' folder, and plan to discuss with payroll tomorrow.
We appreciate your prayers, ideas, and encouragement as we seek to inform the payer that the IRS is trying to go 'around the law' to have the payer STEAL OUR PROPERTY on their behalf, thus shouldering all the liability while the IRS laughs all the way to the bank. If payroll resists, I am prepared to talk to the president [of the employer-company] himself, reasserting the mistake of the penalty and the improper attempt to 'levy' by notice. I am including a specific demand for a signed court order authorizing said 'notice' - but I strongly believe it does not exist!
(bolding added).
I'm sure you're right about the non-existence of the court order, Kensei. The IRS doesn't need a court order to levy on you, and the IRS therefore usually does not request one.
Now, Kensei writes:
It's not weird at all of course. The law imposes the penalty "per person," not "per return."Whew. Thank you Lord. I was on the phone for quite some time recently... HR, but even the director said they weren't able to do anything. The payroll department is offsite, in another city! Contacted the assistant who sent wife's letter, started reviewing our situation, the errors, penalty is mistake, working with examinations, etc. Also mentioned I had some clarifying documents related to the 'notice of levy' and could make an appointment to review them, and have prepared a form they could submit for us, with affidavit for IRS officer, to PROVE that a valid levy exists.
She balked, didn't know what to make of it, said the only one who can release a levy is the IRS, we can't do anything or they will fine us, I reclarified some about the limited scope, turn over the page and see how 6331(a) is missing... She said we don't think we can send anything, if the IRS doesn't release it we just have to give them the money.
Let me speak to the manager. She transferred me.
This man seemed understanding as I was reviewing our situation, but he REFUSED to let me come in and make an appointment (the building is locked and nobody is admitted without a prior appointment, for security?) I reviewed the information in the USC, CFR for Title 26 and 27, TFM, etc., about how there is a limited scope to the 'levy authority.' He said he's seen them from time to time over the past 15 or more years, but when I asked him to look up 6331(a) on the internet, he couldn't find anything. Good grief. And he's the one that's supposed to 'know' the law?? I asked several times for a meeting, I can discuss everything better in person... but he refused. I said 'notice' of levy not actual levy, I just want to request PROOF that it is supported by a court order.
He said he looked at the levy document, it looks like it's official, he has never asked for a court order copy before... ugh. I compiled an e-mail message for him with attachments, including the scans by the Congressional Reps about the limited nature of the 6331 'levy' authority, other pastes and citations, etc., and he agreed to check it out.
How are you supposed to make progress when you aren't even allowed to meet with the payroll department!?! I was mad. We were planning to go talk to the president/CEO to do something for us, to review, etc., but sat down, prayed again and called the Collections number on the notice of levy.
Okay. Reviewed our situation with the woman in Collections [at the Internal Revenue Service]. Various account errors, penalty applied in error, keep asking for proof, verification or ANYTHING and everyone is blowing us off! We keep trying to contact Mrs. Wright [the IRS employee whose name reportedly appears on various notices] yet she has NEVER been at her phone and has never called us back. Was calling on behalf of wife, was reviewing, she asked about married separate, I said, no, married joint is what we filed, we have copies, transcripts, etc. She looked some more, and said 'you're right' - the screen here has 'married joint' - but why does this other part have separate? I asked again, she said, yes, definitely married joint is what we have for you, how could the others have not seen it? Additionally - ALL of the account info is listed on my Soc. number - the wife only has the 'frivolous penalty' on her profile/number, that's it.
Discussed the problem of having ONE return yet with TWO friv. pen's on it, she said, yes, there is no assessment for her either, that is weird... (believe me, we hear 'that is strange', 'that is weird' pretty often with the mistakes in the account...)
Kensei, maybe, just maybe, the putative "return" you filed did not constitute a legally valid "return" under the law. Did you think about that? However, the frivolous penalty applies regardless of whether the putative "return" is considered a legally valid return or not. The penalty applies to the filing of what PURPORTS to be a return, regardless of whether what is "filed" constitutes a legally valid tax return or not.To sum up, she said yes, she will release the levy on wife and fax the release to the payroll. I asked about getting the info fixed, and she echoed what others have said:
"The examinations person is the one who can fix the errors. Only the person who put the penalty/penalties on there can take them off."
I further reviewed with her that recently we got a letter claiming we 'never filed a return' - despite having records to the contrary, and if we never filed, how could such a penalty for a frivolous return exist? She agreed that wow, there are a lot of odd things here... but yes, she will fax the levy release.
A 60 day delay! Victory!!!!Of note, not sure if others are hearing this too - several IRS folks have noticed, 'wow, you only have xxxx of income, but wow, there are a lot of withholdings. Did you have a math error? How did you live on so little income? Why did you have most of your salary withheld?' ... etc.
Actually, one rep asked what was filed with the return, the withholdings are a lot, mentioned 1040 with forms 4852, she said, 'what is that?' I said a form for when you receive an incorrect W-2, or none at all. I mentioned that nonreportable payments were mistakenly reported on the W-2, so we used form 4852 to rebut and correct them. She asked if we were able to get a corrected W-2, I said no, the company did not offer to do that. There is a section in the IRM about 'bad payer data' that describes this.' She said, 'oh, okay' and continued along.
After checking later in the day, the release had not been faxed, so called back - this time the whole deal took over an hour... but learned some more, the woman mentioned sometimes it can take up to 24 - 48 hrs., sometimes, to get the levy release faxed. This second woman reviewed the data, and she is the one who put my 'levy' proceeding on hold as the letter I sent seems to have had no effect. [gdude - call them soon, okay? Have them place a hold on your notice too.] She also was mystified about how the joint returns were 'split' - she also said that the 2004 1040x also looked to be 'split' in two. We recently received CP15 x 2 regarding that year. I reviewed how it DEFINITELY is a joint return, just like the original, we have copies and scans that clearly show that.
This woman also put any 'levy' proceedings on hold for me for approx. 60 days, to give examinations time to fix the problems, and also potentially to contact Taxpayer Advocate to help get things worked out. Whew. Thank you all for your encouragment and prayers, yes, this has been a sickening few days, to say the least.
Well, kensei, you may have won a delay, but I suspect that your "jumping" days are not over yet.....To know what is true, and correct, but to have to 'convince' the ignorant of the truth - or even to get someone to READ and realize what is really going on is frustrating! JUST READ and learn what the law actually says, rather than just 'we just have to do it...' And this is such a person who has no problem HANDING OVER your property. Ugh.
So, in concluding this rather large posting, my wife and I are seeking to figure out the next step. As we have been learning through calls and correspondence, for 2007 the problem is Mrs. Wright. She put the crap on the account, and has 'split' the info - and apparently she is the ONLY one who can fix the problems that she made.
The problem is that she cannot be contacted, never answers her phone or returns calls, and apparently she doesn't really care what we think or doesn't feel like submitting any proof or documents as requested.
SO - the question is - how can we 'pressure' her, or go over her head, or alert which persons, or even SUE her, to get this crap fixed? The filing was in Feb. 2008, we have passed a year, and with the long delays, then the ACS levy computers seem to kick in. We need action to FORCE her, somehow, legally and properly, of course, to honor the return and fix the account errors, and issue the refund claim.
One should not have to sue to simply get their own property returned, nor jump through this ridiculous maze of hoops, delays, false claims, etc.
