Bob Wolffe still doesn't get it.

[Thule]

I think he is foolish and selfish - he may have just lost everything I've been trying so hard to hold onto.

You have my sympathy, it must be terrible to see Robert start down that path again. He is entitled to his opinions, but this is really awful timing.

IIRC, Robert is up for three years of supervised release when he gets out. Antics like seems like a really good way to ensure that his behavior will be watched real carefully during these three years.

It's not for me to tell you what you do, but I hope you manage to take care of yourself during the next month, maybe spend extra time with friends and such.

[webhick]

what gives you the right to subject your dependents and spouse to this nightmare scenario?

Stock answer: They are doing it for them. But whenever I hear that, all I can think about are physically or emotionally abusive husbands or wives who beat on their loved ones because they love them. It makes me sick when I think about that kind of logic.

My heart goes out to SheWolffe. In addition to all the problems Bob just heaped upon her, she may have a serious decision to make soon.

[SheWolffe]

I've got some awesome friends and the people in my office are phenomenal. Even though I know my house is just a 'thing', it is of utmost importance to me. I can't lose it.
As stupid as it sounds, I care more right now that I survive this, then I care about what has happened to him. He dug the hole. If he causes me the ultimate pain and suffering of dumping out a house we have lived in for 10 years all by myself, then yes, my decision will be made alot easier. I am so lucky to have had a job with tenure and a fair pay check when all this came down. Then again, if I'd lost my job back in Sep 07, we would not be having this conversation. Am I being strong, or stupid.

[webhick]

Am I being strong, or stupid.

Strong, because you're managing to hang in there despite everything that's happened. And smart, because you knew that Bob needed to reign in the sovereign beast at least long enough for you two to get back up and on your feet again.

[cynicalflyer]

I just logged in to see if there was anything special getting kicked around.

I guess it's me.

Since I was the original poster, please accept my apology if you felt this was "kicking you around".

This was exclusively and entirely about Bob's statement(s). If it hurt you, I am really sorry.

[Thule]

Stock answer: They are doing it for them. But whenever I hear that, all I can think about are physically or emotionally abusive husbands or wives who beat on their loved ones because they love them. It makes me sick when I think about that kind of logic.

What really sets me off is the filthy little vermin calles "supporters". Hanging around, cheering and patting eachother on the back. Then, when everything crashes, they disappear. Not a hint of concern for the people now in jail. And worse, no concern for the families that lose a provider. If they had a slightest hint of dignity, they'd set up a fund to care for the families. But no, greedy little piggies wants to keep it all to themselves.

And Bob want's to cozy up to that rabble. A pox on them!

[SheWolffe]

I just logged in to see if there was anything special getting kicked around.

I guess it's me.

Since I was the original poster, please accept my apology if you felt this was "kicking you around".

This was exclusively and entirely about Bob's statement(s). If it hurt you, I am really sorry.

No, no. I would have seen it, or heard about it from someplace else in time, I just can't believe that he would do something that would hurt me so much. This will definitely affect his ability to be released to a half way house at his six month mark, which is a few months away. I probably won't see him until he is released in November now. I think what he did was a huge mistake and I feel that he doesn't give a rat's ass what happens to me because everything he does inside, affects ME on the outside. He apparently wasn't thinking of that.

O - btw, he does own a train set.... Trying to lift my humor factor a little.

[Thule]

I would have seen it, or heard about it from someplace else in time, I just can't believe that he would do something that would hurt me so much.

You mean you didn't know until you read it here? Ouch, that is not cool.

[grixit]

What really sets me off is the filthy little vermin calles "supporters". Hanging around, cheering and patting eachother on the back. Then, when everything crashes, they disappear. Not a hint of concern for the people now in jail. And worse, no concern for the families that lose a provider. If they had a slightest hint of dignity, they'd set up a fund to care for the families. But no, greedy little piggies wants to keep it all to themselves.

On the other hand, a lot of hardcore gangs do have such a support network, but this encourages recruitment and retention.

[Thule]

On the other hand, a lot of hardcore gangs do have such a support network, but this encourages recruitment and retention.

I already regret bringing that point up. The next guru will probably start The Patriot Fund for Widows and Orphans, and use it to fool the idiots who have stayed away, out of concern for their families. I think I just lost a heap of good karma...

[The Observer]

If I may suggest -

1. seperate bank accounts
2. file seperate returns
3. check with a trust attorney about putting the house into a revocable (living) trust with you as trustee and a trusted family advisor as successor trustee. That way even if Bob does something really dumb, the house is not an asset under his control that others can go after. Do not iknow if this actually viable, but it couldn't hurt.
4. when he gets out, keep him on a real short leash and consider giving up home internet access. And make sure he stays busy - idle hands are the Devil's playground. Maybe a hobby for him. May I recommend z-scale model railroading.

A revocable trust does little in terms of protecting the property if the individual(s) who put the property into the trust have liabilities, especially if the motivation of creating the trust was to put the property beyond the reach of creditors. Such actions make it possible for legal action to put the property back in the name of the debtor so that the property can be liquidated. TPs have long used revocable trusts, thinking that they were putting their homes beyond the reach of the government, only to find that the word "revocable" means exactly that and that the courts will certainly revoke such a trust.

And the benefit of filing separate returns and maintaining separate bank accounts depends on state laws regarding property and whether community property laws are in effect. Some states do not have community property.

In short, you should seek advisment from an attorney (along with a second opinion) in your area that is an expert in property law and asset protection before taking any steps in trying to protect your property and income. Otherwise you may leave yourself open to unintended consequences that may actually allow you to be deprived of your property.

[SheWolffe]

I always come here first if I am seeking information about this whole Ed Brown mess. I don't have to surf everywhere for information, nor put up with the pumped up crap that is usually attached to it. It's OK.

I wrote him a letter today and I gave it to him straight, said he jeopardized his chance of being released early and was selfish and not concerned about what his actions would have on me or his family. I'm sick of this whole thing. I am not accepting any more phone calls from him, I'm not sending him any more money, I've called others who he usually calls and asked that they refuse his calls for at least a month. There are a few men there who never get letters, nobody cares they are there, nobody sends them money. I want him to feel just like them for a few months. He can look at the family pictures I've sent him and feel that his world just "Poofed" out of existence. Snap, just like that he is totally alone. I cannot believe he did this to me. I want him to realize the value of his life line (me). I'm sure it won't be long before he has a letter in the mail for me.

[wserra]

Hi, SheWolffe, welcome back.

I'm sorry to read about what you're going through. As I think I posted when you were here earlier, I've seen over and over how it's frequently loved ones who get it the worst in situations like this. If you have any influence over him, you would be doing him a huge favor if you could convince him that an adult takes responsibility for what he did. A child blames everyone else.

[ASITStands]

(reading all the other posts) I too am sorry for your pain.

I hope you find peace, comfort and love Somewhere. God bless you, dear lady.

[Nikki]

Ignore Captain KB -- he's aspiring to elevate himself to be a pig.

Ms W: Look to number one and your children.

DUH

Like that's not obvious.

But it still needs to be said. You can only do so much and you need to concentrate your strength on taking care of that which is most important to you.

As others have said, get some good legal advice.

Work from the ugly assumption that things will be in the worse possible state down the road. At worst, you'll break even. At best, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Next (and this will hurt), remember the sunk cost fallacy. There's absolutely no point in throwing more money (time, effort, emotion) away in the hope of recovering what's gone before.

Set things up so you will be able to cut your losses and go on with the remaining important things.

Finally, get counselling. There are free / low-cost services available everywhere. They may not provide anything more than a good outlet to vent and rant, but that's important.

Keep in touch and yell for help if you need it.

[Dezcad]

Ignore Captain KB -- he's aspiring to elevate himself to be a pig.

Ms W: Look to number one and your children.

DUH

Like that's not obvious.

But it still needs to be said. You can only do so much and you need to concentrate your strength on taking care of that which is most important to you.

As others have said, get some good legal advice.

Work from the ugly assumption that things will be in the worse possible state down the road. At worst, you'll break even. At best, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Next (and this will hurt), remember the sunk cost fallacy. There's absolutely no point in throwing more money (time, effort, emotion) away in the hope of recovering what's gone before.

Set things up so you will be able to cut your losses and go on with the remaining important things.

Finally, get counselling. There are free / low-cost services available everywhere. They may not provide anything more than a good outlet to vent and rant, but that's important.

Keep in touch and yell for help if you need it.

I second everything Nikki wrote in that post - and I mean everything. Best wishes SheWolffe!

[.]

This thread actually brought a tear to my eye, and that's a real rarity. The pain these morons bring to their supposed loved ones is unbelievable.

My unsolicited advice, knowing nothing of the intimate details and worth what it cost: Blow the moron off and move on as best you can, he's apparently on a long-term course of self-destruction and there's no good reason to go along for more of a ride than you've already been forced to endure.

[Lambkin]

The saddest thing is the inevitable collateral damage. I hope Mr Wolffe finds some way to reflect upon it and come to a new understanding. It doesn't look good at the moment but there are many parallels to substance abusers who sometimes turn their lives around after long periods of destruction.

[SheWolffe]

I really did not want to ruin this discussion string with my personal and emotional distraught over it all. I know and I understand what he does, I’ve dealt with it for years.

He has many redeemable qualities outside all of this. We camp, we love 100+ dealer shops, we take alot of day trips. He is a numismatist and has a beautiful collection of US coinage.

I would say with some certainty that people from NH underground i.e., Haas, Champagne, are writing and influencing him. Being where he is, he hasn’t much else to do except read books, eat really awful food, and stew over this entire event. He probably enjoys getting mail – any mail.

Without saying the “D” word outright, I left him to feel the real experience that staying in that crappy hell hole is really like. I have been providing him all the comforts I can avail him in his situation, and his stay has been made a little easier through my efforts. We will see what yanking the rug out from under him will prove.

So he can weigh his odds. Me (which includes of all things love.... and the advantage package that comes with it) - (CKB ) pets, home, personal belongings, his own comfy bed, driving, etc. Or depend on the warm and fuzzy companionship he can get from Joe Haas and the like, which to me would be akin to being reamed with a cactus.

I'm Bad, I'm Nationwide

[webhick]

I really did not want to ruin this discussion string with my personal and emotional distraught over it all. I know and I understand what he does, I’ve dealt with it for years.

Not ruined. Your situation pertains very much to the thread and it's important for anyone considering the way of the TP to see what it does to their loved ones. Your words here may very well prevent this from happening to someone else.

He has many redeemable qualities outside all of this. We camp, we love 100+ dealer shops, we take alot of day trips. He is a numismatist and has a beautiful collection of US coinage.

Which is exactly why I agree wholeheartedly to your method of trying to make him wake up. I just hope he does.

Without saying the “D” word outright, I left him to feel the real experience that staying in that crappy hell hole is really like.

Duct-tape? I admit that would be a rather large expense for you right now considering that you'd have to fly down to the prison and gag him with it. But at least you'd have some fun ideas for when he gets out.

Or depend on the warm and fuzzy companionship he can get from Joe Haas and the like, which to me would be akin to being reamed with a cactus.

Does anyone know if there's anything that the government can do to stop Joe Haas from continuing to ruin lives? Oh, and is he related to a Brent?