Liberty Dollar, Part 4

[notorial dissent]

Well, some vendors could buy into the whole "alternate currency" mythology. It seems likely to me that some would exist among the precious metal and mints of the world, and FunHouse is likely the kind of person who would seek to business with those who share his ideals...

I’m sure that some, if not most of the vendors believe in the “mythology”, in fact they would have to be and are, IMHO, flat out dumb and clueless to begin with to swallow that nonsense, which goes hand in hand with believing the mythology. I’m sorry, but if you can add 2 + 2 and get 4 there is no way if can make “sense”, at least in any reality I’ve visited recently. You buy coins for one of three reasons; you collect them and are buying for collector’s value-and you had better know what you are buying; you buy them for metal content-at which point you had better know what you are buying or you will end up with gold painted or dipped slugs-and you had better hope the coin value isn’t worth more than the metal value; or you buy them because you like the looks of them and don’t care if they are real or not, and are looking for something reasonably priced-which for the most part excludes the Libbies. The Libby fails at all three points. If you are interested in precious metal, you go to a metal dealer, or a good coin house and buy something that is what it says it is.

As I have said before, I would quite happily buy the Hawaiian set von Nuthouse produced several years ago, but not at his inflated prices. They might be worth the $6-8 worth of silver that may be in them, and I would pay a little premium for the art work, but that is the limit of what I would spend. I have no illusion that they will ever be worth more than the metal price to me and would be collecting them simply for the intrinsic value to me.

[fortinbras]

Recent news that LD funny money is getting a (slight) boost in these troubled times:
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/0 ... made_.html

New York Daily News

With economy tanking, 'liberty' coins made of silver are paying off

BY Matt Lysiak DAILY NEWS WRITER
Tuesday, March 10th 2009, 1:16 AM

Nicolas Leobald is fighting the federal government - one silver coin at a time.

The 42-year-old East Village writer struck one of his mild-mannered political blows the other day at his favorite deli, where he bought some cold cuts and a roll, paying with a silver coin marked $10 and getting back three dollars in change.

That simple transaction could mean jail time for Leobald and the butcher. The coin, called a Liberty Dollar, is not legal tender and passing it is a federal crime.

Libertarians, who are pushing the coins as an "inflation-proof" alternative to the greenback, call it a revolutionary act.

"It's about trying to take power away from the Federal Reserve and return it to private citizens," Leobald said.

He says he spends his coins at Gray's Papaya, grocery stores, movie theaters and on taxis.

"I use them all the time. People love Liberty Dollars," said Leobald, who has several hundred dollars' worth.

For years, those who obsessed about the Gold Standard and tried to pass so-called "private money" were considered fringe nutcases.

With predictions of the dollar weakening and consumer fears of inflation strengthening, there is sudden new interest in alternative money - even in New York City. "I ask the merchants if they would rather be paid in green pieces of paper or real silver, and more often than not, they want the silver," said Karl Reile, 47, who says he spends Liberty Dollars on a daily basis at gas stations and restaurants.

He said store owners almost always accept the pieces.

"I take them at my store because they are so unique," said Andrew Ilnici, who runs the East Village Market and Deli.

Ilnici says he brings them home for his children, who enjoy the touch and feel of the silver.

The U.S. Mint says only Congress has the power to coin money, but in the gray world of barter, shopkeepers who accept the coins as souvenirs for their kids aren't really breaking the law.

No one has ever been arrested for passing a Liberty Dollar.

The alternative currency was invented 10 years ago by controversial "monetary architect" Bernard Von NotHaus.

The coins come in several denominations, from a copper piece marked $1 to a $500 gold piece. They have soared in popularity since the economy tanked.

Sales of the coins are up more than 100%, Von NotHaus said, adding that more than $22 million in Liberty Dollars are in circulation.

Von NotHaus's company sells the coins over the Internet. A 1-ounce silver coin stamped with "$20" costs $18.26 at bulk rates. The firm says buyers can make out by spending Liberty Dollars and getting real money back.

Ultimately, the company wins. Silver is trading now at around $13 an ounce.

Now, I think I did hear of someone who was arrested for passing an LD, and who tried suing Norfed for getting in that jam, several years ago. Evidently he didn't win his case but I don't know any details.

Of course if I can buy a $20 coin for a mere $18.26, buy a stick of gum and get $19 in FRNs in change, I end up ahead. But not as far ahead as the guy who's paying only $13 for the silver and then selling it to me for $18.26.

[Dezcad]

Recent news that LD funny money is getting a (slight) boost in these troubled times:
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/0 ... made_.html

New York Daily News

With economy tanking, 'liberty' coins made of silver are paying off

BY Matt Lysiak DAILY NEWS WRITER
Tuesday, March 10th 2009, 1:16 AM

Nicolas Leobald is fighting the federal government - one silver coin at a time.

The 42-year-old East Village writer struck one of his mild-mannered political blows the other day at his favorite deli, where he bought some cold cuts and a roll, paying with a silver coin marked $10 and getting back three dollars in change.

That simple transaction could mean jail time for Leobald and the butcher. The coin, called a Liberty Dollar, is not legal tender and passing it is a federal crime.

Libertarians, who are pushing the coins as an "inflation-proof" alternative to the greenback, call it a revolutionary act.

"It's about trying to take power away from the Federal Reserve and return it to private citizens," Leobald said.

He says he spends his coins at Gray's Papaya, grocery stores, movie theaters and on taxis.

"I use them all the time. People love Liberty Dollars," said Leobald, who has several hundred dollars' worth.

For years, those who obsessed about the Gold Standard and tried to pass so-called "private money" were considered fringe nutcases.

With predictions of the dollar weakening and consumer fears of inflation strengthening, there is sudden new interest in alternative money - even in New York City. "I ask the merchants if they would rather be paid in green pieces of paper or real silver, and more often than not, they want the silver," said Karl Reile, 47, who says he spends Liberty Dollars on a daily basis at gas stations and restaurants.

He said store owners almost always accept the pieces.

"I take them at my store because they are so unique," said Andrew Ilnici, who runs the East Village Market and Deli.

Ilnici says he brings them home for his children, who enjoy the touch and feel of the silver.

The U.S. Mint says only Congress has the power to coin money, but in the gray world of barter, shopkeepers who accept the coins as souvenirs for their kids aren't really breaking the law.

No one has ever been arrested for passing a Liberty Dollar.

The alternative currency was invented 10 years ago by controversial "monetary architect" Bernard Von NotHaus.

The coins come in several denominations, from a copper piece marked $1 to a $500 gold piece. They have soared in popularity since the economy tanked.

Sales of the coins are up more than 100%, Von NotHaus said, adding that more than $22 million in Liberty Dollars are in circulation.

Von NotHaus's company sells the coins over the Internet. A 1-ounce silver coin stamped with "$20" costs $18.26 at bulk rates. The firm says buyers can make out by spending Liberty Dollars and getting real money back.

Ultimately, the company wins. Silver is trading now at around $13 an ounce.

Now, I think I did hear of someone who was arrested for passing an LD, and who tried suing Norfed for getting in that jam, several years ago. Evidently he didn't win his case but I don't know any details.

Of course if I can buy a $20 coin for a mere $18.26, buy a stick of gum and get $19 in FRNs in change, I end up ahead. But not as far ahead as the guy who's paying only $13 for the silver and then selling it to me for $18.26.

Shaun Kranish, of "I introduced Dutch to Ed fame", was arrested. His blog on that is here:

http://libertydollararrest.blogspot.com/

There also was thread on this forum a while back about it.

[absdes96]

I follow commodities markets, but this is the first I have heard of this Liberty Dollar scheme. Perhaps I need to leave my compound from time to time?

Interesting article from the New York Daily News. I wonder how many of those sandwich shop owners and grocery store owners were born in foreign countries?

The reason I raise that question is because many immigrants, hold gold and silver in high regard. There are many stories of people from South Vietnam who swaped their their currency for gold and silver before fleeing to the U.S. By the time many of them landed in the U.S., the south Vietnamese currency was no longer recognized in the international market.

At any rate, I do wonder if the flight to hard commondities we are seeing in the U.S. and abroad is going to give rise to more fradulent coins being produced and sold.

[fortinbras]

Whether or not the Liberty Dollars are finally adjudged illegal, they are a poor investment in precious metal.

To begin with, they are way overpriced, even when compared with other one-ounce gold and silver coins like the US Eagles and the Canadian Mapleleafs.

Moreover, the Eagles and the Mapleleafs, being minted by the US and Canadian govt mints, are guaranteed by law for their purity and weight - and legality. No such assurance with the LD.

Under those circumstances, if I were a merchant presented with an LD I would positively not accept at its pretended face value in US dollars. Because I could not be assured of its acceptability, its purity or its weight, I would accept only at a very deep discount - perhaps at a value lower than its true metallic value.

[Demosthenes]

LIBERTY DOLLAR NEWS - February 23. 2009
Voila - LD Introduces Bullion Pricing!

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

WOW! It has finally happened! Unknown to most, a core group of very dedicated Liberty Dollar activists have been hard at work to reinvent the Liberty Dollar with "bullion pricing" that will greatly reduce prices and put more silver and profits in your pocket! Plus with the new Merchant Account you can now order with your bank card online!
As it turns out… the results are much much more than just lower prices as silver shoots up and all the convenience of ordering online! The new "bullion pricing" program has FREE and rapid shipping of your orders, greater profits and is a tremendous boost to our efforts to safeguard Americans from the ravages of hyperinflation. WOW! I hope you enjoy this long-awaited announcement as much as we are pleased to finally make it. Special thanks to those who made the "bullion pricing" possible. And for all of you who had your property confiscated by the Fumbling Bunch of Idiots (FBI) please note the good news in Bernard's Legal Update.
FLASH #1!!! Gold goes over $1000 per ounce and silver pushes $15! Please order before this rush turns into a flood. Remember "dollar cost averaging" is best.
FLASH #2!!! Glenn Beck opened a recent War Room show with the Liberty Dollar and adlibs that I am in jail! Please note I have never been in jail and the government has done everything to keep the Liberty Dollar out of court. I hope to update Glenn on a future show. Click HERE to watch (6:10 into video).
FLASH #3!!! On a personal note, Bernard's mother, Susy, was just named the Athlete of the Year by the State of Florida. She and the male Athlete of the Year will be honored at a special banquet in Tallahassee on March 5.

Table of Contents

1. Liberty Dollar Introduces Bullion Pricing!
2. Shopping Cart with Bank Card Processing! Order online!
3. Silver with Benefits
4. Glenn Beck Hockey-Stick Chart
5. Inflation in our Lifetime
6. Changes for Liberty Associate and RCO Programs
7. 2009 Peace Dollar $1
8. CIBC - Slams Silver by David Morgan
9. Judge Buried by Letters
10. Legal Update - Bernard files New Motion

1. Liberty Dollar Introduces Bullion Pricing!
The Liberty Dollar is pleased to announce a new bullion pricing model for the $20 Silver Liberty to revolutionize the private voluntary barter currency (PVBC).
The new "bullion pricing" for the 2009 Silver Liberty $20 is based on the spot metal price plus a small premium for minting so it is less expensive and you make more money using it for $20! This is a huge difference from the earlier "currency pricing" based on the face value that was more expensive.
The Liberty Dollar invites you to take the "Silver Challenge" and compare the $20 Silver Liberty to the US Mint's $1 Silver Eagle and the generic Silver Round without a face value. You can decide which one will benefit you the most. All three items contain one Troy ounce of .999 fine silver.
Just compare the government's Silver Eagle with a face value of $1 to the private Silver Liberty with a face value of $20. Why buy a Silver Eagle at a higher price that can only be used for one dollar when you can buy the Silver Liberty with the same amount of silver for less money, immediate delivery, plus use it for $20 and profit? There is even less reason to buy a generic Silver Round with no face value. The bottom line is that the benefits of the Silver Liberty are vastly superior to the Silver Eagle or the Silver Round. Click HERE for the Comparison Table.
It is not just the price and delivery that separates the Silver Liberty from the Silver Eagle and the generic Silver Round. While all are round with distinctively attractive designs and contain one Troy ounce of .999 silver, the big difference is the face value. While the Silver Eagle carries a $1 face value in US dollars barring it from use, the Silver Liberty carries a $20 face value in Liberty Dollars that exchanges dollar-for-dollar with the US dollar and encourages people to spend the silver at a profit. Click HERE for the new "bullion price" Rate Schedule.
Now the new bullion pricing for the Liberty Dollar affords everyone the opportunity to protect your purchasing power, family, and America with the Liberty Dollar and profit from the current uncertain times… before the monetary problems become more serious.

Click HERE to order.

2. Shopping Cart with Bank Card Processing! Order online!!
Finally after more grief that you can possibly imagine, we are very pleased to announce that Liberty Dollar has a new Merchant Account so you can order Liberty Dollars online with your Bank Card. Click HERE to order.

3. Silver with Benefits
As we all know, owning actual physical silver has a lot of benefits. So we have created a new business card size sticker: SILVER WITH BENEFITS for the new bullion packaging. Please click HERE to view. Unfortunately, the image does not do justice to the dynamic mirrored silver letters with the black background. You must get some to really appreciate this new sticker! Please click HERE to order.

4. Glenn Beck Hockey-Stick Chart
Please click HERE for YouTube that shows Glenn Beck's hockey-stick chart of new money being created by the Federal Reserve. It show inflation from 1910 into 2010. If this doesn't scare you, nothing will. Posted February 7, 2009. Please note Bernard's comments following "Inflation in Our Lifetime" article. Click HERE to see Bernard on the Glenn Beck Show.

5. Inflation in our Lifetime
Friday, February 6, 2009, 9:52 AM: Jerry Hammond who has the "misfortune of working for national supermarket chain" reports: "I just thought it would kind of be interesting to have everyone post some of the price increases I have recently noticed."
Hellman's Mayo decreased in size by 10% for the same price,
Heinz ketchup reduced in size from 48 oz to 40oz for same price.
King Size Snickers reduced in size by .6 ounces for the same price of $1.39!
Bernard's Note: Thank you, Jerry, for bringing that inflation to our attention. I will ask LD to send a Silver Liberty to you with our thanks. But wait! Inflation is just not in the grocery stores. On May 11 the government operated US Post Office will raise the First Class rate by two cents. No much, eh? Well that is 5% and comes much sooner than the last price increase. The acceleration of the cost of mail is just another indicator that the depreciation of the US dollar is accelerating and we are getting closer to hyperinflation. Plus with much less fanfare in January, the postal rates for Priority and Express Mail have already risen almost 10%!!!
Please take note! Government info is always behind reality. To be kind, they are just a bunch of lying bastards. The US economy is already moving past deflation and quickly rushing into hyperinflation that will usher in a totalitarian government - unless we do something! I call the evolving economic situation, intended or not, The Catapult Effect. The government has cocked the economy with deflation - much like cocking a catapult… and when they let it fly - the USD and our lives are going to be catapulted into hyperinflation. Meanwhile, the same old village idiots from the CFR controlled media are stating we are in a deflationary economy. Nothing could be further from the truth, IMHO. Please view Glenn Beck's video for his hockey-stick chart.

6. Changes for Liberty Associate and RCO Programs
Please note the new bullion priced Liberty Dollar cries out for everyone to get involved… before it is too late. So the Liberty Associate program has been dissolved to remove barriers from using the Liberty Dollar. Now everyone is encouraged to use the volume based bullion pricing to get as many Silver Libertys as possible with the maximum discount and distribute them to your family and friends at a profit to reward yourself for your activism and time. Time is of the ESSENCE! Please don't delay. Either change your money - or lose it!
RCO Program has been modified into a national distribution network. The advantages of being a RCO are: 1) Participate in "Bulk Orders" with fellow RCOs for greater discounts. 2) Participate in the exclusive RCO user group and conference calls for added business advantages. 3) Participate in the "Naked Back" Silver Liberty program that facilitates RCOs to customize their issues with the name or logo of their region, business or entity. 4) Receive a custom punch that RCOs hand stamp on the "Naked Back" Silver Libertys. Annual fee to participate is $1000. All current RCOs are RCOs without any additional fee until January 1, 2010.

7. 2009 Peace Dollar $1
NOTICE: Please read this for important info regarding the condition of the 2009 Peace Dollar and other numismatic information.
First, as this item is only a buck, you know the economics is very tough. But the popularity is undeniable so it is a great way for the Liberty Economy to diversify into the top three coined metals. Second, while the manufacturer in China has continuously tried to improve, the latest mintage of the 2009 Peace Dollar was quite a surprise. If these copper Libertys looked different, please note they were "burnished" after minting. Put this one down to being lost in the translation… because the burnishing was to be done before minting. The result is that the copper 2009 Peace Dollar $1 appears both "shiny" and somewhat "scratched." Plus there is some terrific toning (color change) on some of the Peace Dollars and most notably on the Numbered and Hallmarked Issues... Of course, this is not what we intended but some of the toning is actually quite attractive… and will become more so over time. We will continue to work with the mint in China as they try to improve the engraved dies too.
All 2009 Peace Dollar $1 are SOLD OUT. Thank you very much!!! Every single Peace Dollar is an "expressive act" as protected by the First Amendment that we don't want any stinking war! If you missed out on this important $1 Peace Dollar, they are available on the secondary (collector) market at a premium to the initial issue price. Hint - it is always best to get the issue at its initial issue price!! Likewise, the Limited Numbered Edition (LNE) that was initially issued at $5 is currently $12. The LNE is individually hand numbered and also contains the Peace Symbol hallmark by Bernard. The First Day of Issue (FDI) with the Peace Symbol and Bernard's federally registered Mintmark that was initially issued at $4 is now $8.00. Both of these collector issues are important as they were "cherry picked" to be the best available and of course will appreciate more as only 300 LNE and 300 FDI were minted. Plus with hyperinflation, everything of value, including collector value, will increase. And as the Liberty Dollar becomes more popular with more people, this Peace Dollar will appreciate more than the General Issue.

8. CIBC -Slams Silver by David Morgan
For those of you who have a minute, click HERE for an excellent article on silver by David Morgan, a long-time supporter of the Liberty Dollar in response to a damming article on silver by CIBC. If you ever had any doubts about misinformation this should cure you! Click HERE for the CIBC article.

9. Judge Buried by Letters
Thank you for sending your letter to Magistrate Judge Dennis L. Howell. Now with all due respect, I think the FBI duped Magistrate Howell. Even a casual reading of the Affidavit by FBI Special Agent Andrew F. Romagnuolo, reveals an obvious gross distortion of the truth. My sincere thanks to all the Liberty Dollar activists who refuse to let the government steal their property and buried the Magistrate with thousands of letters voicing their "public challenge" to his recent ruling that granted another six months to the FBI investigation of the Liberty Dollar. The new deadline for government action is June 20th!
NOW… if you have any paper or digital Liberty Dollars and have NOT mailed your letter to Magistrate Judge Dennis L. Howell… SHAME ON YOU! Please take immediate action by sending this Letter to the Magistrate stating that you are an interested party, are publicly challenging any additional Stay and demand the immediate return of your property. This letter is in Microsoft Word format. If you do not have MS Word installed click HERE to download and install a viewer from Microsoft.
Your action will ensure that you will get your property back because your name was not on the Search and Seizure Warrants and refuse to let the government steal your property. Thank you for your activism!!! PS: Now is also a good time to please make a contribution to the Contingency Club, only $100 minimum.

10. Legal Update - Bernard files New Motion
As many of your know, the DOJ filed a secret sealed Motion (aren't you glad we don't live in the old Soviet Empire:) for another six month extension. Well, I was not happy with that secret extension so on January 30, 2009, I filed my own pro se Rule 41g Motion. And while the Motion only asks for the recovery of confiscated material that was not covered by the Search and Seizure Warrants, it puts the government on notice that this matter should be resolved, the sooner the better. Please click HERE to view the Motion.
This LDNews is longer than usual… but OH soo good. Hope you are enjoying the Liberty Dollar. It is alive and well thanks to your good support! That's it for another month. Stay in touch, live well and profit with the new bullion priced 2009 Silver Liberty $20!
Dan Priest
Liberty Dollar CEO

[fortinbras]

So we have here a clear admission that the LDs are overpriced, or more specifically, carry a face denomination substantially in excess of the metallic value ... and an admission that LD members are told that getting that face denomination in purchasing power effectively shortchanges other people.

Now it is very true that the US govt's Silver Eagles carry a face denomination of only One Dollar, and rather obviously, sell for much more (about $17). Nobody who owns a Silver Eagle would consider for a second using it at its face denomination; they will always be sellable to coin shops and collectors at the market price of an ounce of silver at least, and probably more - well-kept Silver Eagles will probably fetch more than their original purchase price. With the fluctuations in the values of precious metals no sensible person transacts silver coins at their face denomination -- altho LD members are hoping that other people will accept LDs that way (at least until silver market price tops $20).

[Trippy]

7. 2009 Peace Dollar $1

First, as this item is only a buck, you know the economics is very tough. But the popularity is undeniable so it is a great way for the Liberty Economy to diversify into the top three coined metals. Second, while the manufacturer in China has continuously tried to improve, the latest mintage of the 2009 Peace Dollar was quite a surprise. If these copper Libertys looked different, please note they were "burnished" after minting. Put this one down to being lost in the translation… because the burnishing was to be done before minting. The result is that the copper 2009 Peace Dollar $1 appears both "shiny" and somewhat "scratched." Plus there is some terrific toning (color change) on some of the Peace Dollars and most notably on the Numbered and Hallmarked Issues... Of course, this is not what we intended but some of the toning is actually quite attractive… and will become more so over time. We will continue to work with the mint in China as they try to improve the engraved dies too.

I wonder what the die-hards will have to say about these "all-American" coins being minted in a Communist country ....

[Gregg]

Just compare the government's Silver Eagle with a face value of $1 to the private Silver Liberty with a face value of $20. Why buy a Silver Eagle at a higher price that can only be used for one dollar when you can buy the Silver Liberty with the same amount of silver for less money, immediate delivery, plus use it for $20 and profit? There is even less reason to buy a generic Silver Round with no face value. The bottom line is that the benefits of the Silver Liberty are vastly superior to the Silver Eagle or the Silver Round. Click HERE for the Comparison Table.

I'm sorry, maybe some people were with them when it could plausibly be called a collectible, but isn't that just about an admission of counterfeiting?

[notorial dissent]

Well, that would be my take on it.

Certainly trying to pass them will get you into all kinds of trouble, as it did certain dimwits who are only now digging themselves out of the hole they jumped in to, and since they aren’t legal tender, and aren’t worth the value printed on them, kind of like writing a check for $20 when you only have $2 in the bank, they call that check fraud where I come from.