My favorite LH post of the day

[Weston White]

The “Bill of Rights” is NOT as you say “and addendum of sorts”, to use your quote, it is part and parcel with that constitution. The “Bill of Rights” is a specific group of amendments to that constitution, that upon ratification became an integral part of the constitution just as if they had been written into the original document.

Yes that is essentially what an addendum is; to amend something. I do not really get the point of mincing phrases so much on this form, it serves only as a distraction really. But whatever, to each his own, I suppose. Though, the Bill of Rights has a special sort of history behind its inception or "ratification"... there another quote for you to have a go at.

[Gregg]

So what is "constitution" in is ordinary sense, it is the established customs and laws, the principles of a government or nation... So where could have those established customs and laws derive from? Could that have been the Declaration of Independence? I say without any doubt, absolutely!

that's just gibberish. the Declaration of Independence is not a law, it is at best a legal document but only in the same since that my car title is a legal document. It is a political statement, it says, in the form of an announcement "We no longer consider ourselves Subjects of the Crown" but until the Articles of Confederation, no law was changed beyond not complying with certain laws of the Empire that they didn't like. The State Constitutions were the governing law as far as day to day law went. As most judges were crown appointees, I'm guessing the courts weren't that busy during the War.

The "Customs and Laws" as you call them in fact derived from English Common Law, they owe more to Henry II than to the Declaration of Independence.

If you're confused about the other use of the word "constitution" I have one word: VERB

Not to degenerate Mr. Jefferson's best work, but it was not intended to be LAW, there is nothing about it that looks like law in the way you are implying, its a political statement, and after a war and a few years, it was accepted as fact by the British Government.

[ASITStands]

An observation:

... I do not really get the point of mincing phrases so much on this form, it serves only as a distraction really. ...

The word, "mincing," is normally used as an adverb:

Main Entry: mincing
Function: adjective
Date: 1530

: affectedly dainty or delicate <taking mincing steps>

So, "mincing phrases" would be "dainty or delicate phrases." Somewhat like "small phrases."

I don't think that's the meaning of your sentence. Are you substituting "mincing" for "mixing?"

However, "mincing" can also be used as a verb, though you won't find it in a dictionary:

Mincing is a cooking technique in which food ingredients are finely divided. ....

That fairly accurately describes how one should approach the subject of law. When reading the text of a statute, regulation, opinion, etc., it's important to parse the words.

You have to accurately understand the subject of the statute, regulation or opinion, and you have to accurately understand the arguments made before opening mouth and inserting foot.

I'm not trying to be critical of your writing. I'm only pointing out what seems obvious to many on this forum, and others, and that is, how important it is to read a text accurately.

Practice writing and rereading your post before submitting it to review. Practice reading the text of a statute and noticing the small connecting words, such as "or" and "and." Practice doing the same thing with a court opinion before concluding what it is you think they said.

Unfortunately, many in the tax movement err by not reading more closely. They often hang themselves by overlooking the simplest of language and grammar that changes the meaning.

I believe that's what's happened here in the discussion of Fundamental Law.

EDIT: It's been discussed before, but learning to diagram a sentence would be helpful.

2nd EDIT: Having read some of the other posts, learning to use a dictionary would also help.

[Prof]

Much in the law of statutory construction hangs on the placement of a comma, the use "or" as compared to "and," and the use of "may" as compared to "shall."

This can be important elsewhere, as well. The Greek in which the New Testament was written used no punctuation. Therefore, when Christ, hanging on the Cross, says to the Good Thief,

Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. ...,

Luke 23:43, KJV, the quote seems to say that the Thief will join Christ in paradise that very day, without any pause in time until, say, the end times, or for purgatory, etc. However, if we move the comma just one word, to read

Verily I say unto thee [delete comma] Today , [ insert comma] shalt thou be with me in paradise. ...

the timing of the Thief's arrival in Heaven becomes indefinite, for today refers to the date of the promise, not the date of arrival.

I know the example is theological, but the example indicates -- as does case law -- how important precision is in writing and puctuation on matters to which people attach great importance.

[ASITStands]

Exactly!

And, one reason I mention the difference between adjective, adverb and verb, and the practice of diagramming sentences, goes to that very subject, understanding what's written.

Did anyone notice I erred by calling "mincing" an adverb and not an adjective?

Knowing the difference between subject and predicate, and the difference between nouns, pronouns, prepositional phrases and adverbial clauses contributes much to understanding.

Just knowing that a sentence normally requires a verb would help!

You simply can't understand important texts without having better reading comprehension.

[Demosthenes]

However, "mincing" can also be used as a verb, though you won't find it in a dictionary:

????

Of course you'll find it in a dictionary. "Mincing" is simply an inflected form (the present participle) of the verb "to mince."

Main Entry: mince
Pronunciation: \ˈmin(t)s\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): minced; minc·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French mincer, from Vulgar Latin *minutiare, from Latin minutia smallness — more at minutia
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a: to cut or chop into very small pieces b: to subdivide minutely ; especially : to damage by cutting up
2: to utter or pronounce with affectation
3 aarchaic : minimize b: to restrain (words) within the bounds of decorum
intransitive verb
: to walk with short steps in a prim affected manner
— minc·er noun

Weston's sentence didn't try to use mincing as a verb, though. He used it as a non-finite clause acting as a noun (aka a gerund.)

I do not really get the point of mincing phrases so much on this form

Weston's grammar and sentence structure were fine, although his diction was off. I'd have used "nitpicking" rather than "mincing." To "mince words" means to say something politely, rather than stating the harsh truth.

[ASITStands]

However, "mincing" can also be used as a verb, though you won't find it in a dictionary:

????

Of course you'll find it in a dictionary. "Mincing" is simply an inflected form (the present participle) of the verb "to mince."

Main Entry: mince
Pronunciation: \ˈmin(t)s\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): minced; minc·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French mincer, from Vulgar Latin *minutiare, from Latin minutia smallness — more at minutia
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a: to cut or chop into very small pieces b: to subdivide minutely ; especially : to damage by cutting up
2: to utter or pronounce with affectation
3 aarchaic : minimize b: to restrain (words) within the bounds of decorum
intransitive verb
: to walk with short steps in a prim affected manner
— minc·er noun

Weston's sentence didn't try to use mincing as a verb, though. He used it as a non-finite clause acting as a noun (aka a gerund.)

I do not really get the point of mincing phrases so much on this form

Weston's grammar and sentence structure were fine, although his diction was off. I'd have used "nitpicking" rather than "mincing." To "mince words" means to say something politely, rather than stating the harsh truth.

Ok. Coming from the writer of several books, I'll accept that.

Should have said, "I couldn't find it [immediately] in a dictionary."

If I had considered, "to mince," I'd have reached the same conclusion as 'Demo,' but I'm not familiar with non-finite clauses acting as nouns. Shows my ignorance (which I freely admit).

[Weston White]

An observation:

... overcompensating rant about the use of some silly little word...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mince

[Weston White]

So what is "constitution" in is ordinary sense, it is the established customs and laws, the principles of a government or nation... So where could have those established customs and laws derive from? Could that have been the Declaration of Independence? I say without any doubt, absolutely!

that's just gibberish. the Declaration of Independence is not a law, it is at best a legal document but only in the same since that my car title is a legal document. It is a political statement, it says, in the form of an announcement "We no longer consider ourselves Subjects of the Crown" but until the Articles of Confederation, no law was changed beyond not complying with certain laws of the Empire that they didn't like. The State Constitutions were the governing law as far as day to day law went. As most judges were crown appointees, I'm guessing the courts weren't that busy during the War.

The "Customs and Laws" as you call them in fact derived from English Common Law, they owe more to Henry II than to the Declaration of Independence.

If you're confused about the other use of the word "constitution" I have one word: VERB

Not to degenerate Mr. Jefferson's best work, but it was not intended to be LAW, there is nothing about it that looks like law in the way you are implying, its a political statement, and after a war and a few years, it was accepted as fact by the British Government.

OMG, get real will you?

[ASITStands]

An observation:

... overcompensating rant about the use of some silly little word...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mince

My rant was about being precise when reading law!

I've admitted my errors. Have you?

[Imalawman]

So what is "constitution" in is ordinary sense, it is the established customs and laws, the principles of a government or nation... So where could have those established customs and laws derive from? Could that have been the Declaration of Independence? I say without any doubt, absolutely!

that's just gibberish. .....

Not to degenerate Mr. Jefferson's best work, but it was not intended to be LAW, there is nothing about it that looks like law in the way you are implying, its a political statement, and after a war and a few years, it was accepted as fact by the British Government.

OMG, get real will you?

Westy is starting to bore me.....

[Weston White]

Westy is starting to bore me.....

Great my plan is coming together perfectly!