They aren't all scams - ShoptoEarth

[TheDealMan]

This MLM is one that I think is similar by nature but actually does benefit the people that do join. It's an MLM with a purpose and that's to get people to simply SHIFT their shopping habits into a more green oriented way of buying. It's just my opinion and I would like to know yours.

http://*****************************
Look at the overview and then continue to the tutorial, it should all take but 30-40 mins

(ed.: Advertising is inappropriate. Feel free to discuss your theory, your business model, etc., but don't attempt to take advantage of the traffic on this forum to promote it with a link.)

[Nikki]

And where are you on the pyramid, moron?

Why should we pay you and all your upstream for products we can get for half the price?

[TheDealMan]

Number 1 name caller, I'm not selling you a thing. I buy all my products through my site and get major discounts. And the post says to click the link and take a look before you become judgemental buddy. So whos the moron, the one who can't even follow simple directions............yea thats you

[Nikki]

Moron refers to the your stupidity for posting a blatant MLM scheme promotion on a web site dedicated to debunking MLM schemes for the worthless scams that they are.

Why do you think (giving you a LOT of credit) that I didn't visit the site and confirm that it's just another same old same old?

The link, and its associated blather is just another typical MLM money extraction tool.

Why would someone buy into this garbage when it (based on their specific estimates) it would take almost a year to recover the initial investment?

Why should anyone pay a marked-up price when they can get the same product for much less?

Why should I put money in your pocket?

Why don't you go back and finish your GED, with a special concentration on basic English?

[Doktor Avalanche]

Meet the new MLM scam, same as the old MLM scam.

[Trippy]

This MLM is one that I think is similar by nature but actually does benefit the people that do join. It's an MLM with a purpose and that's to get people to simply SHIFT their shopping habits into a more green oriented way of buying. It's just my opinion and I would like to know yours.

Simply a scam -- as ALL MLMs are. (By the way, STE founder Patrick Welsh has had six corporations dissolved already, for failure to file a required annual report.)

Here's some links for your perusal:

Who is Shop-To-Earn?
http://www.bizop.ca/blog2/complaints-an ... -earn.html

Is Shop-To-Earn A Scam?
http://everydayfinance.blogspot.com/200 ... me-to.html

Why Shop-To-Earn Sucks
http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/ ... mnational/

A Shop-To-Earn Broker's Opinion
http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/ ... e-program/

[Trippy]

And one more for your perusal ....

Welsh was also involved with Equinox (do a search on this company and your stomach will churn for hours). Here's the link (simply click "Ctrl + F" to find his name):

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/posts/post29.htm

For those who don't want to search, here's the post:

Re: Equinox

All I have to say is WOW! you really hit the nail on the head. Bravo! I got sucked into Equinox in 93 and was under Pat Welsh. Everyone lied so much that I just got turned off ond went on with my life, scarred but alive. I'm still broke(by Equinox standards) but at least I know I won't rot-in-hell ! Thank you for posting the TRUTH!

[Doc Bunkum]

It's purpose is to get people to simply SHIFT their shopping habits into a more green oriented way of buying.

I'm buying green tea instead of the regular stuff.

Does that count?

[webhick]

It's purpose is to get people to simply SHIFT their shopping habits into a more green oriented way of buying.

I'm buying green tea instead of the regular stuff.

Does that count?

I'm glad you brought this up because I've switched to burying my enemies in the garden rather than putting them in a weekly bonfire and polluting the atmosphere. We all have to do our part.

[TheDealMan]

I appreciate all the input, minus the loser that tries to "intelligently" call people names. All I asked for was opinion on the concept. So with that in mind. When you guys say that it is a scam, what do you mean by that? That they don't pay out like they say?

[Trippy]

When you guys say that it is a scam, what do you mean by that? That they don't pay out like they say?

It's very likely most people won't make back even their signup fee (you'd have to buy a LOT of product to do so). However, even if this program does pay like it says, the biggest problem is the focus on RECRUITING.

I've looked at the compensation plan, and it appears that you don't start earning the big bucks unless and until more people sign on under you (and stay there). The focus is not on products, the stores available for shopping, living green, or cashback rebates -- it's on recruiting. And that is the classic hallmark of an illegal pyramid scheme (which usually collapses when either market saturation is reached, or enough people quit in disgust).

You'll probably ask, "Well, if it's illegal, why is it still in business?" Because A) the DOJ simply doesn't have the resources to go after all the pyramid schemes out there and B) the ones coming up with these schemes know this. They're also careful to keep things just this side of legal. (Also, as in the case of Amway, some have very good and aggressive legal representation.) In addition, most pyramid schemes collapse within a year or so as participants quit (without making any money), top recruiters go elsewhere, and the founders disappear.

I learned the hard way years ago: If there is a compensation plan, recruiting, levels, pay-to-play, or anything else like these involved, I ignore it.

[Nikki]

This MLM is one that I think is similar by nature but actually does benefit the people that do join. It's an MLM with a purpose and that's to get people to simply SHIFT their shopping habits into a more green oriented way of buying. It's just my opinion and I would like to know yours.
http: advertising link deleted
Look at the overview and then continue to the tutorial, it should all take but 30-40 mins/quote]

I appreciate all the input, minus the loser that tries to "intelligently" call people names. All I asked for was opinion on the concept. So with that in mind. When you guys say that it is a scam, what do you mean by that? That they don't pay out like they say?

Gee, how could I possibly misinterpret that a blatant advertising statement was nullified by just a few words.

Your language is exactly the same as is used by people selling these scams in churches, meetings, friends homes, and so on.

"Gee I just got this literature and it sounds interesting. What do you think?" Followed by canned rebuttals to every doubt the mark<<<< customer could possibly have.

DealMan: when did you join the program and how big is your doenline so far?

Excluding rebates on items YOU bought, how much have you made since you joined?

[wserra]

When you guys say that it is a scam, what do you mean by that? That they don't pay out like they say?

No. I have no information that they don't pay per their "compensation plan". My main problem is the one they put on their own web site: "Members also receive bonuses that are determined by recruitment and the sales of all down line members." That's the only way to make any significant money.

What are the problems with the "cash back" stuff? Lots.

(1) When someone buys through an affiliate link on a StE site, Shop to Earn gets a commission, and the individual distributor gets a piece of that commission. How much is that? Well, it depends. It depends a lot. StE advertises "up to 30%" back. That's like a carnival barker who says that winning his $1 game gets you "up to $100". What the barker doesn't tell you is that to win that $100 you must perform the equivalent of throwing a basketball through a hoop 100 yards away. What percentage of StE links give back 30%? Unscientifically, it appears equally tiny. The typical rebate appears to be in the 2-4% range.

(2) Let's generously assume that the average rebate is 5%. Please note that StE, as far as I can tell, doesn't provide that information - I wonder why not? Anyway, just to make back your $450 membership fee, you then have to buy $9000 worth of stuff. Just to make back the current $120/yr renewal fee, you must buy $2400 more stuff. That's before you make a dime.

(3) Even these numbers presume that you can't get a better price on the merchandise than those on StE's affiliate links. I strongly doubt that this is so. For example, one of StE's affiliates is one of my favorite stores - J&R, which now occupies almost an entire block on Park Row in lower Manhattan. Since it is only a couple of blocks from the Manhattan courts, I drop by at least once a month. There are always extensive in-store specials, many of them unadvertised. Moreover, the information given at the link above doesn't even identify the make or model of the "Three International Cell Phones". I wonder why?

(4) There are already cash back services out there without the tricks - for example, Microsoft Live Search (formerly Jellyfish). And there are lots of cash-back credit cards. No recruiting, no uplines, no downlines, no fees, no BS. Oh, you want an example of the BS? How about this, from the bio of StE founder Patrick Welsh: "Pat spent the last 10 years creating and developing the Shop To Earn online platform that couples networking and e-commerce." He spent what? What'd he do - work on it five minutes a week?

(5) If you want to do affiliate marketing, why do you need these guys? Get a web site, sign up with LinkShare or Google's Affiliate Network, and affiliate away. And keep everything, without needing to split it with StE.

(6) I don't like bullies. StE has a history of threatening to sue critics.

Is that enough? Oh, yeah, it's an MLM too.

[Doc Bunkum]

More bullying of bloggers by Shop To Earn attorney Gerald Nehra

The blogger writing Everyday Finance has been threatened more than once by Gerry Nehra because he posted his personal review of Shop To Earn and the ShopToEarth program. He had some concerns about the program, the Shop To Earth products, how commissions are paid out, and the MLM structure.

I think maybe we had best be careful what we say about ShoptoEarth.

Apparently the company doesn't like sites like this writing nasty stuff (the truth) about them.

Earlier today I reported that I had been threatened by Gerald Nehra, attorney for multi-level marketing company ShopToEarn for writing about my opinions on the company here. I am not the first blogger that he and Shop To Earn have threatened, and the threats continue.

Shop To Earn lawyer ups the ante with financial blogger

I have a dim view of this program, and so does Everyday Finance. The blogger at Everyday Finance was threatened by MLM attorney Gerald Nehra about posting his opinions on the company. The blogger amended parts of his original article, making it very clear that he was citing personal opinions (both good and bad) about the program. I got my own cease and desist letter this week from Gerry Nehra and Shop To Earn.

Is Shop to Earn a scam or a legitimate business?

[Nikki]

Interesting statement from Mr. MLM Attorney Gerald Nehra

The next distinction, to my mind, is a make or break distinction and a legality versus pyramid test. Does the money the company make, and does the money paid to representatives, flow primarily from business volume and NOT from the mere act of sponsoring another representative? Ideally, ALL such money flow is triggered by business volume. If ANY money flows to the representative for recruiting another representative WITHOUT a business volume component, the terms "red flag" or "head-hunting fee" are used. In a legal compensation plan, the act of sponsoring alone can never trigger a commission payment. All compensation must be based on business volume, and no compensation can ever flow from the act of sponsoring alone. Even plans that are technically correct in design, but use inappropriate language to suggest the representative is paid for sponsoring, have significant risks. Such an error in design or implementation is a red flag to regulators investigating pyramids. In a legally designed plan, no one-not the company and not any representative-makes money, unless business volume is generated by products and services being purchased by consumers.

Now, why doesn't he apply this standard to the MLMs for which he is threatening legal action? Could it be that Mr. Green is whispering in his ears?

[wserra]

I just spent several minutes on their site trying to find some information (other than a slide show telling you how rich you'll get) on how these guys pay their distributors. No luck. At one point I thought I had found it - on the last page of that lengthy slide show is a link entitled "Documentation". I clicked it. Don't waste your time. Only an MLM could present this page as "documentation".

Anyway, on Friday CA AG Jerry Brown shut down a pyramid scheme entitled "Ez2Win.biz". That particular scheme, according to Brown,

purported to be an online shopping hub where consumers could go to purchase thousands of goods and services from big name retailers including, Sears, Target and Macy's, at discounted prices. Consumers were informed that if they purchased a Big Co-op membership, they could save money on their own purchases and also earn commissions and rewards by convincing others to shop on the site.

In reality, consumers never received rebates or rewards. Instead, profits were based on recruiting others to purchase memberships, and having those purchasers recruit others to purchase memberships (and so on).

Sound familiar?