Richard Calls Upon You!

[Weston White]

Agreed, I would have only two questions for them, would they support replacing all of the various tax forms with a postcard?" Would they support the change of letting the IRS just bill us directly? Their answer would expose
the truth of the matter.

http://losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1704


So the only other question is do you all have the guts to respond?


And the quote of the day goes to Viking for their well thought out retort: "But who else besides a bunch of CPAs and Lawyer hacks would sit around and support such a misunderstanding of the Income Tax." You win five Liberty Dollars for your well thought out response!

[Lambkin]

Agreed, I would have only two questions for them, would they support replacing all of the various tax forms with a postcard?" Would they support the change of letting the IRS just bill us directly? Their answer would expose
the truth of the matter.

I absolutely support letting the IRS attach the bank accounts of LH regulars and "bill them directly". Once someone has demonstrated anti-social brain damage, there should be no further call for "voluntary" participation. One the lein is fulfilled, the relationship can be maintained for the sake of simplicity and future compliance.

In all seriousness, I would be OK with a tax system that involved no forms, or highly simplified forms that would fit on a postcard. But I'm not a CPA, lawyer or tax professional of any kind.

And the quote of the day goes to Viking for their well thought out retort: "But who else besides a bunch of CPAs and Lawyer hacks would sit around and support such a misunderstanding of the Income Tax." You win five Liberty Dollars for your well thought out response!

Can I get a Libby for a spot-on song reference? For your consideration: "Beware of Viking" by Gas Huffer.

[Weston White]

Oh, what a shocker, I see you comprehend posts just as well as you do the IRC. Good job buddy, keep up the good work. OK, go play on Twitter now, go on, I am sure there is some lame ass unimportant updates sent by some unknown somebody, somewhere for you to ponder over.

[Demosthenes]

Replacing tax forms with a simple post card sounds great to me, unless of course, it means that I have to pay a higher effective tax rate.

[Famspear]

This is the old "anyone who exposes the tax protesters as crooks must somehow have a vested economic interest in preserving the status quo tax system and that's the real reason they expose the tax protesters" scam.

Stupid. Stupid. S-T-U-P-I-D.

Are these people really stupid enough to think that we post on this web site exposing tax scams in order to preserve our own jobs????

This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard among the many stupid arguments these people come up with.

Oh, yes, somehow I am so worried that one day the tax protesters will destroy the tax system that I post on these web sites to try to STOP THE "TRUTH" from coming out??????!!!!???

Come on, people. At least make a reasonable attempt to look like you really believe what you're saying. You tax protesters, as a group, are pretty stupid -- but I don't think you're that stupid.

Of course, I could be wrong......

By the way, a simple post card would be a much better system than the one we have now. I don't know how it could ever work, considering the politics of tax policy and everything else involved. And if that meant that I would be out of a job, I would just do something else.

[Red Cedar PM]

Sure, I'll play along.

Agreed, I would have only two questions for them, would they support replacing all of the various tax forms with a postcard?"

I guess that would depend on what the postcard looks like. In general, I am all for simplifying the tax code. Problem is the current tax returns need to be able to make sure that all different types of income, deductions, and credits are captured in a tax return. I think that the tax system could and should be simple enough that a person making less than $150k per year should be able to do their taxes in an hour on a "postcard-like" tax form. I think it's pretty sad when so many people have to pay someone to do their taxes for them, and this is coming from a CPA.

I would be very happy if we had the political will to eliminate all kinds of deductions and credits, especially eliminating the exemption for muni interest, eliminating the state and local tax deduction, and greatly limiting the home mortgage interest deduction. If we did all that we would be able to get rid of the AMT and all the complexity that comes with that, and lower all of the marginal rates quite a bit. Problem is I don't see that coming anytime soon.

Would they support the change of letting the IRS just bill us directly? Their answer would expose
the truth of the matter.

I don't know what truth this is exposing, and I'm not sure I understand what exactly Richard is asking, but I would not be in favor of the IRS just billing people for their taxes. The voluntary compliance system in this country has worked for years and can still work in the future. My philosophy is that the government should almost always be doing less, not more.

The problem with our tax system isn't that the IRS isn't billing people directly, it's that the tax code is so damn complex and convoluted that people can't figure it out easily.

And the quote of the day goes to Viking for their well thought out retort: "But who else besides a bunch of CPAs and Lawyer hacks would sit around and support such a misunderstanding of the Income Tax." You win five Liberty Dollars for your well thought out response!

Not even sure what the hell that's supposed to mean. I am all for changing and simplifying the tax code. However, I am not going to apologize for one second about helping my clients understand the tax system and being compensated a fair fee for doing so. Me personally, I work almost entirely with business taxes, consulting, and assurance. If everyone in the country didn't have to fill out a 1040 ever again, my career would feel very little impact. A good CPA has to be able to adapt to constantly changing laws, regulations, and standards. It's the nature of our business.

You want a good example of someone that unjustly enriches themselves based on peoples' confusion about the tax code? Look no further than your buddy Pete Hendrickson.

[Lambkin]

Oh, what a shocker, I see you comprehend posts just as well as you do the IRC. Good job buddy, keep up the good work. OK, go play on Twitter now, go on, I am sure there is some lame ass unimportant updates sent by some unknown somebody, somewhere for you to ponder over.

If that shocks you, how about this: I have never read the IRC apart from the bits used to skewer people like you on this web site. (Never used twitter either.) I have read a lot of court documents involving tax protester trials though, and there is a certain thread that runs through most of them. If you find that thread you will also know why reading the IRC isn't important.

[absdes96]

It would be a gigantic clusterf*ck and that alone should preclude it.

I do not doubt that there would be some ecomonic repercussions. Also, there are a lot of financial & investment products, life & health insurance contracts, and estate planning instruments that are formed and based upon the provisions in the tax code.

Simply put, a highly diverse and complex market economy has a complex system of laws and regulations.

Abolish the tax code and use a simplified system (i.e. postcard)? I am not sure about that. The western European countries use a simpler system, but they also have more centralized and socialistic systems too.

In another thread, CaptainKickBack made reference to the fact most of those Western European countries have far more debt than we do when comparing our respective GDPs. It would seem that their cookie cutter methods of tax collection have not proven to be any more efficient than our cumbersome system.

[Weston White]

This is the old "anyone who exposes the tax protesters as crooks must somehow have a vested economic interest in preserving the status quo tax system and that's the real reason they expose the tax protesters" scam.

Stupid. Stupid. S-T-U-P-I-D.

Are these people really stupid enough to think that we post on this web site exposing tax scams in order to preserve our own jobs????

This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard among the many stupid arguments these people come up with.

Oh, yes, somehow I am so worried that one day the tax protesters will destroy the tax system that I post on these web sites to try to STOP THE "TRUTH" from coming out??????!!!!???

Come on, people. At least make a reasonable attempt to look like you really believe what you're saying. You tax protesters, as a group, are pretty stupid -- but I don't think you're that stupid.

Of course, I could be wrong......

By the way, a simple post card would be a much better system than the one we have now. I don't know how it could ever work, considering the politics of tax policy and everything else involved. And if that meant that I would be out of a job, I would just do something else.

Yup it is called government sponsored propaganda, it is highly effective in misleading the masses, so much so that is plays a major impact in winning wars, and make no mistake this is a war, a war to get the truth out. Just as the MSM broadcasts propaganda to the masses everyday, they are paid larges sums of money from the Whitehouse to push their agenda out to the masses, pipping it right into their living rooms and bedrooms all day and all night. So much so that people will vote one way and will not even know why. Ask them, they have not damned clue, none at all. They are virtual zombies. For them there is two choices Republican or Democrat, for them America is a Democracy. For them the chains of bondage only means having to wear a helmet when you ride a motorcycle or a bicycle, that you can't have guns in your own home, that your children have to have public education, that your children have to be vaccinated, that not questioning the government is the only form of patriotism... and for them that is not all that bad really.

And this is why there are so many groups working to silence and mislead the public about what really occurred on 9/11, right? Just like they have no financial interest either right? I guess it is just one of those funny hobbies people pickup. Hey you know what would be fun Tom? What if we create a well structured website to debunk all of those 9/11 Truthers? I mean it will require tons of research on our parts and money to get everything going and to maintain a high search engine ranking, but gee, think of all the fun we will have! Yea, Burt! That is the best idea you have ever had! I mean neither of us really care about 9/11, but heck yea lets get to it!

- Sure, sure.

[Weston White]

Oh, what a shocker, I see you comprehend posts just as well as you do the IRC. Good job buddy, keep up the good work. OK, go play on Twitter now, go on, I am sure there is some lame ass unimportant updates sent by some unknown somebody, somewhere for you to ponder over.

If that shocks you, how about this: I have never read the IRC apart from the bits used to skewer people like you on this web site. (Never used twitter either.) I have read a lot of court documents involving tax protester trials though, and there is a certain thread that runs through most of them. If you find that thread you will also know why reading the IRC isn't important.

I would say that your post shocks me, but actually I am not surprised by your statement, not in the least. In fact I expect this to be the case for them as well. and yes you are correct reading and understanding "the law" or anything else for that matter is not important, unless it applies to you of course.

[Red Cedar PM]

Yup it is called government sponsored propaganda, it is highly effective in misleading the masses, so much so that is plays a major impact in winning wars, and make no mistake this is a war, a war to get the truth out. Just as the MSM broadcasts propaganda to the masses everyday, they are paid larges sums of money from the Whitehouse to push their agenda out to the masses, pipping it right into their living rooms and bedrooms all day and all night. So much so that people will vote one way and will not even know why. Ask them, they have not damned clue, none at all. They are virtual zombies. For them there is two choices Republican or Democrat, for them America is a Democracy. For them the chains of bondage only means having to wear a helmet when you ride a motorcycle or a bicycle, that you can't have guns in your own home, that your children have to have public education, that your children have to be vaccinated, that not questioning the government is the only form of patriotism... and for them that is not all that bad really.

And this is why there are so many groups working to silence and mislead the public about what really occurred on 9/11, right? Just like they have no financial interest either right? I guess it is just one of those funny hobbies people pickup. Hey you know what would be fun Tom? What if we create a well structured website to debunk all of those 9/11 Truthers? I mean it will require tons of research on our parts and money to get everything going and to maintain a high search engine ranking, but gee, think of all the fun we will have! Yea, Burt! That is the best idea you have ever had! I mean neither of us really care about 9/11, but heck yea lets get to it!

- Sure, sure.

Yes, we're all out to get you Weston. We're all government shills paid to keep the sheeple quiet. In fact, Webhick just took your picture 15 minutes ago:

[Weston White]

Among other reasons, direct billing of tax payers for taxes would be far more expensive and far less reliable than the current system of automatic withholdings and people completing and filing their own returns. It would be a gigantic clusterf*ck and that alone should preclude it.

On a personal note, I always find it amazing that the people who scream the loudest about other people who have money and call them names, often do not have a pot to p*ss in themselves and are trying desperately to mask their own life of inadequacies and failures by villifying [sic] those who have achieved honest success through hard work and intelligence.

And since I highly doubt "Richard" has the financial wherewithal to purchase a product from the company I work for, his opinion means diddley-squat [sic] to me as he is not putting money in my pocket.

Not it would not it would be much, much cheaper and would save every working person tons of time, all while cutting IRS mailing down to near nothing. You all seem to be pro-green, so you should support such a system (Seriously how much paper does the IRS waste annually, not to mention all of these tax businesses, such as H&R Block et al, how much electricity, how much ink is used on all of those papers, how much fuel and oil burned by vehicles driving around tax returns and tax instructions booklets?). Fact is that the current system is one that is not has not kept up with technological feats. Fact is taxing people requires and assessment and the IRS cannot provide one because assessments only apply to direct taxes, they would expose their fraud in doing so, that is why the have to rely upon a self-assessment system, as they currently do.

The IRS could simply send out a short-form that you review and sign and mail back or sign into a website and review through your online account. The information provided would be based upon the W-2 the IRS receives or it could be based upon a shared system with the SSA itself and forget about the W-2 (actually, when you think about it is rather silly to have a W-2 and W-3. Wonder this has to do with the SSA/IRS scam that was being discussed on LH last week?). The IRS then fills in the fields through encrypted automation, the "taxpayer" thereafter makes the corrections and adjustments on the short-form or online by accounting for their deductions and whatnot, so much simpler and such a reduction in resources, such a reduction in confusion, so great! ...for taxpayers anyways.

[ASITStands]

Replacing tax forms with a simple post card sounds great to me, unless of course, it means that I have to pay a higher effective tax rate.

It's already been done!

However, there's a competing form complete with new deductions.

[Weston White]

Yea well…


They (who) seek to establish system of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers… call this a new world order. It is not new and it is not order.
- FDR

[Imalawman]

I noticed Westy, that you conveniently forgot to acknowledge that several CPA's and lawyers agreed that we should simply the tax system. So, I'll weigh in too - I would love it if nobody ever asked me another individual income tax question ever again! Truly, I support any and all simplification of the tax system. I handle all sorts of tax issues - property taxes, sales/use taxes, corporate income taxes..etc. The only tax I really don't have much interaction with is the individual income taxes of people making less than $500,000 a year. Do you really think lawyers and CPAs make a lot of money off of the 1040? Really? Never made a dime off of preparing tax returns (of course, I'm a litigator, so that makes sense)

You think I'd be out of job if the tax system vanished? Hardly - I'd bet you that the year after there were no taxes (thus no gov't, but that's another issue) I'd still make at a minimum 4 times what your best years income ever was.

Sure, I'm getting to be a pompous jerk - but you're annoyingly stupid so I guess it evens out.

[Weston White]

The fact is that the government is making too much revenue from taxation, way too much money, they are getting board to death trying to figure out how to spend it all, so they come up with pet projects. The government would still make more than needed to support the nation. Besides that there is only three reasons to tax the nation, and bailing out private companies is not one of them, nor is policing the world with a massive military. We spend, IIRC, 50-times more on our military than all other nations combined. Though we spend crap on education. And you think this is just dandy? Well you are right about your pompous jerk comment, but that is all you are right about.

There are hundreds of taxes, at the federal, at the state, and local levels. You want people to believe that if you take away the taxes on peoples labor, meaning to break apart the statue quo misconception the nation is going to just fall apart, geez.

And sure you will still have a job, though your field is going to greatly be diminished. Much in the same way that technological advancements have effected the common factory worker, e.g. mechanical automation.

[Nikki]

Again, WW falls back into his rut: a tax on people's labor.

He refuses to accept that the tax is on income.

Until he crosses that mental bridge, he is merely soiling these pages with the result of mental masturbation.

[Gregg]

And he screws up something (admittedly minor) in every single post, starting with adding a word tot he FDR quaote (stupid because the quote is right next to it in the picture), his grammar is about 8th grade, he makes a one of those stupid pseudo statistics

We spend, IIRC, 50-times more on our military than all other nations combined.

actual truth

Rest-of-World [all but USA] $500 billion 2004 est. [see Note 4]
United States $623 billion FY08 budget [see Note 6]

so in Weston World, 125% = "fifty-times more"

people might take you seriously if you'd quit pulling "facts" out of your ass...and I agree with whoever said youj're annoyingly stupid

[Weston White]

Even if you were to magically simplify the tax code today, within 5 years there would be all sorts of new Revenue Rulings, tax law changes and administrative changes that would muddy up the waters again and then we are headed back dwn the path we are currently on. Sorry.

There will always be a need for tax specialists, CPAs, CMAs, and tax attorneys.

Nope, they just need to beef up public education and get people thinking on their own again, teach them about law, teach them to read, get them pumped up and motivated about living. As it stands now all that matters is being cool and keeping up with the newest T.V. reality shows, Myspace website morph, and dance music.

[Weston White]

Again, WW falls back into his rut: a tax on people's labor.

He refuses to accept that the tax is on income.

Until he crosses that mental bridge, he is merely soiling these pages with the result of mental masturbation.

Wow you must be one classy girl. That is right the tax is upon income, though you sadly have no idea what the income tax is. That is your main problem... besides a lack of classiness. I guess I could find you in the back of the closest dive bar at about 23:45, (should I ever need "tax advice" that is)?