"Weston Blathers to Gottago"

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Weston White

"Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Weston White »

Received two more CP15 letters today (one for each of us) with another $5000 penalty for me and a $10000 penalty for husband, again for frivolous submissions for tax year 2004. These are not duplicates of the previous ones. Total of $25,000 in penalties in a single week. Have no idea what is going on...will attempt to contact the taxpayer advocate Monday.
All of this serves only to prove that this is being done entirely through automation, there is no review, no authoritative oversight, no IRS employees to hold accountable, it is a sham, a spiteful and petty shell game. There is a recent thread about this on LH, it appears that still to date, not a single person has received any actual levying of anything, only unsigned letters and notices… OP, do you seriously not wonder why the CP15 you have no signatures on them, no IRS agent case worker contact information on the notice?

See: http://losthorizons.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1735

In fact, over the course of the last two years only two individuals, so far that I am aware, have actually been levied and both of them admitted that they do receive payments from the federal government one was for disability and the other from social security/retirement; and to further note one of those individuals never bothered to rebut the IRS with even a single response they instead ignored all of the letters and notices and refused to sign for what they thought was the CP15 notice, which the USPS brought to his home. And there have been dozens upon dozens of us CtCers that have received IRS notice and letter, after IRS notice and letter.

Watch, do a FOIA for your required tax assessment and for the penalty or charge approval, the IRS will be entirely unable to provide them to you, this is because it is being done through a computer mailing program without any legal authority whatsoever! They just hope you will get scared and submit unto them, on your own voluntarily.


See:
4.10.1.5.3.2 (05-14-1999)
Written Communication
1. All taxpayer correspondence should be clear, concise, and professional, as well as adhering to legal requirements.
2. All correspondence should also strive to meet the needs of the taxpayer.
3. Where possible, all correspondence with taxpayers should be prepared using standard forms and letters, since the specific language in these documents has been approved for general use.
4. All correspondence must contain an employee name, contact telephone number, employee identification number, and signature. (See 1.6.9 below for more information).
5. Any original correspondence prepared by examiners should be approved by the group manager and such approval should be documented in the case file. If correspondence is not individually approved, managers must develop some type of ongoing review process to ensure the quality of correspondence
6. Groups should maintain read files of all taxpayer correspondence that does not use form letters.
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch09s01.html#d0e126352

And IRM 4.8.9.8.1 for notices of deficiency: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch07s08.html#d0e112859


In accordance with 26 USC 6065:

Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/sear ... -000-.html

See the Quatloosians believe this to mean only taxpayers, however, it makes no specific mention of taxpayers, the only distinction in this section is what is required by the IRC and Regulations (and as you can see by the IRM the Secretary has made it a requirement for IRS employees to sign, have approved, and include employee contact information within their letters and notices), and it uses the word ANY, that means everything and anything by everybody, it is a global application, this is in Subtitle F, which is the administrative enforcement for all of 26 USC as applicable through the Parallel Table Of Authorities and Rules.

You will also notice in reading the various threads on this forum that the Quatloosian holds the viewpoint that when the IRC serves to benefit the IRS agenda, it is all inclusive, even when in discord with established legal doctrine; though whenever there is a section that actually serves to benefit or protect the rights of the "taxpayer" or individual, it is extremely limiting or inapplicable. Clearly, they are here to push their agenda at all costs and to any degree of ludicrousness, even while holding the stance that they fight the IRS all the time and disagree with the many aspects of the IRS... Even a blind man is tuned well enough to see and avoid that that large pile of manure.

Though as you should be already know, use your own good judgment and common sense of course, and you may very well actually have a percentage of taxable income, only you know that for sure though.

P.S. For some extra fun, you can always call up the IRS and ask them what class of tax you are liable under for whatever tax year and you will sense their utter confusion over the telephone. As they will not have a clue what you are even talking about. Daaaauuhhhh... the income tax... or something? Oooohhhh... you're one of those tax protesters... "I am not going to argue that with you!" Quit picking on me or I am going to hang up on you! Stop, the voices, you are confusing me!!! StOp! StOp iT! Aggggghhhhh! I can't take it the voices, the voices!! Agggghhhh!!! Laff
Weston White

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Weston White »

See the way the Quatloosian censors speak, and yet they wonder why PH does not want your type on his forum? Surely, you all must be joking... while we await for the punchline. :oops:
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Joey Smith »

What censorship? Your drivel is here for all to read (with amusement).

Like they have in previous cases (Meredith, Schiff, Larken Rose, Kahn, etc.), the government often waits to go after followers until the main guru has gone down, since then it makes it pretty much impossible for the followers to claim that -- even after the guru went down -- they were in good faith with their beliefs.

Plus, on all these people the fines, interest and penalties continue to accumulate -- it will be a nice payday for the government very soon now, and one which will last for many years as these people will not be able to get out from under their judgments anytime soon.

Financial Darwinism ~ The stupid stay broke.
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"The real George Washington was shot dead fairly early in the Revolution." ~ David Merrill, 9-17-2004 --- "This is where I belong" ~ Heidi Guedel, 7-1-2006 (referring to suijuris.net)
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Weston White

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Weston White »

But see this is not in the thread that it should be in, that being the thread the OP is most likely to review. That is the issue. See I am not being permitted to post within that thread... as all of my posts are removed by Quatloosians into another thread, an entirely separate and unrelated thread... that is the censorship that is taking place here. Though I don't expect you to understand that, just as I don't expect you to understand why PH does not want Quatloosians on his website. ...Which is for the same reason that you all do not want me posting in threads of people asking for advise on this forum... because the advise I have to give goes against the advise you all wish to inflict upon the poor souls that venture here to seek it from you... unfortunately.

The funny thing being that all the while I am actually able to cite and quote statutes and the like to support my advise, while all of you are able to only give your personal opinions, without citing anything... Gee no wonder you don't want me posting in the same threads with those seeking some form of aid.
Nikki

Weston Whines

Post by Nikki »

There is a significant difference between censorship and editorial oversight.

Nothing you have wriiten here (unlike your previous forum of choice) has been censored.

All that was done was to regroup various posts into more appropriate subject headings.

Until you realize that the subject / initial post of a thread defines its content AND adhere to that concept, you may find your posts in places other than those where you mistakenly left them.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by ASITStands »

Weston only sings one tune, and the words are stale.

We've heard it all before, and now, he expects everyone to be interested in his blathering.

It would be one thing to offer substantive help, but it's entirely another to blather on about the illegality or inappropriateness of whatever's been done in a particular instance.

Such as that of 'gottago.'

So, no one is censoring his right to say whatever it is his feeble mind desires. They're just protecting those who also have a right not to be bothered by it. That includes 'gottago,' but it also includes a lot of others who don't exactly appreciate diarrhea of the mouth.

Sort of like, not shouting, "Fire!" in a crowded theater. His right to blather on about direct and indirect taxes ends at the point where the idiocy is noticed by others.

Go answer 'Nikki's' question about the Sixteenth Amendment.
Paul

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Paul »

Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury.
Hey, WW, I highlighted the pertinent section of your quote for you. Why to you moronic TPs always skip right over that part?
SteveSy

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by SteveSy »

Paul wrote:
Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury.
Hey, WW, I highlighted the pertinent section of your quote for you. Why to you moronic TPs always skip right over that part?
I've always wondered where the Secretary has "otherwise provided"? Your response will be of course everyone within the internal revenue is acting on behalf of the Secretary, with no documented evidence of such of course, making the law meaningless and nothing but a space filler. If its some federal judge dealing with the issue he'll just claim its not important, an insignificant error...but you'll notice that only applies when the government does it. Try sending anything in to the government that requires a jurat without one and you'll quickly see that its rejected and no court will let you dispute the validity of the underlying information until you place one on the document.

Its very revealing how much latitude most of you give the government, in short your reasoning makes almost all laws controlling the government related to the collection of taxes meaningless, especially when its Paul posting.
Last edited by SteveSy on Sun May 03, 2009 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Gregg »

Weston White wrote:But see this is not in the thread that it should be in, that being the thread the OP is most likely to review. That is the issue. See I am not being permitted to post within that thread... as all of my posts are removed by Quatloosians into another thread, an entirely separate and unrelated thread... that is the censorship that is taking place here. Though I don't expect you to understand that, just as I don't expect you to understand why PH does not want Quatloosians on his website. ...Which is for the same reason that you all do not want me posting in threads of people asking for advise on this forum... because the advise I have to give goes against the advise you all wish to inflict upon the poor souls that venture here to seek it from you... unfortunately.

The funny thing being that all the while I am actually able to cite and quote statutes and the like to support my advise, while all of you are able to only give your personal opinions, without citing anything... Gee no wonder you don't want me posting in the same threads with those seeking some form of aid.
Of course, none of the people here are asking further advice because the first advice they got here resulted in them getting on the IRS's "special holiday card list" are are trying to figure out how to get various lawyers, collectors and tax examiners to leave them alone.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Famspear »

SteveSy wrote:
Paul wrote:
Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury.
Hey, WW, I highlighted the pertinent section of your quote for you. Why to you moronic TPs always skip right over that part?
I've always wondered where the Secretary has "otherwise provided"? Your response will be of course everyone within the internal revenue is acting on behalf of the Secretary, with no documented evidence of such of course, making the law meaningless and nothing but a space filler. If its some federal judge dealing with the issue[,] he'll just claim its [sic] not important, an insignificant error...but you'll notice that only applies when the government does it. Try sending anything in to the government that requires a jurat without one and you'll quickly see that its rejected[/,] and no court will let you dispute the validity of the underlying information until you place one on the document.

Its very revealing how much latitude most of you give the government, in short your reasoning makes almost all laws controlling the government related to the collection of taxes meaningless, especially when its Paul posting.
Bolding added.

Again, this highlights a recurring theme. In Steve's mind, it's not "the law" that's giving the government "latitude," it's the Quatloos regulars who are doing so.

Steve is wrong.

What we're doing is reporting on what the law is - in this case, as interpreted by the courts -- the courts where all laws (not just federal income tax laws) are interpreted under our legal system -- a legal system that none of the Quatloos regulars "set up".

From a recent federal court decision (January 5, 2009):
Petitioner raises several grounds on which he argues that the IRS did not follow proper procedure under the Internal Revenue Code. First, he asserts that the Summons was not verified by a written declaration as required by 26 U.S.C. §6065.3 Pet. at ¶ 9. Section 6065, however, applies only to returns and other documents submitted by taxpayers, not documents issued by the IRS. See Morelli v. Alexander, 920 F.Supp. 556, 558 (S.D. N.Y. 1996). The law does not apply, for example, to "notices issued by IRS agents." Thompson v. Internal Revenue Serv., 23 F.Supp.2d 923, 925 (N.D. Ind. 1998).
---from Tuka v. United States, 2009-1 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) ¶50,163, case no. 1:08mc32 (JCC) (E.D. Va. 2009).

And, when a federal judge rules on this topic, as the judge did in Tuka, Steve characterizes the ruling as "claiming" that it's not important. Of course, Steve is wrong. When a federal judge makes a ruling, he or she is not "claiming" anything in the connotative sense in which Steve is using the term. A ruling by a court of law is a ruling -- a decision -- not a mere "claim." Whether the ruling seems to be invalid or unjust or stupid or dumb or unfair to Steve or you or me or anyone else is beside the point. Under the U.S. legal system, both sides make their arguments, and the court renders a judgment. The fact someone "believes" the ruling to be invalid or unjust or stupid or dumb or unfair is totally unremarkable.

Now, let's look at this statement in the statute: Where the Secretary [of the Treasury or his delegate]" has "otherwise provided." Nowhere does it say how the Secretary, etc., must "provide," or whether that provision must even be in writing. Presumably, the Secretary could "provide" that an administrative summons, for example, does not have to have a jurat -- simply by having the form for the summons printed that way. This reminds us of the chronic tax protester habit of creating an imaginary "rule" -- a "rule" that the IRS must have this form or administrative act be accompanied by a signature, or that the IRS must have that form be signed with a jurat, or that the IRS must accomplish some other administrative act with some sort of formality that the law does not actually require.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Weston White

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Weston White »

Paul wrote:
Except as otherwise provided by the Secretary, any return, declaration, statement, or other document required to be made under any provision of the internal revenue laws or regulations shall contain or be verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury.
Hey, WW, I highlighted the pertinent section of your quote for you. Why to you moronic TPs always skip right over that part?
And guess what genius the Secretary has implemented this through the vehicle known as the IRM.

Everybody, this thread is not for Quatloosians to make their rantings and blatherings it is for the OP of the other thread or those like him/her. Many of you Quatlost suffer from mental derangement.
Famspear
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Famspear »

Weston White wrote:And guess what[,] genius[,] the Secretary has implemented this through the vehicle known as the IRM [Internal Revenue Manual].

Everybody this thread is not for Quatloosians to make their rantings and blatherings it is for the OP of the other thread or those like him/her.
Dear Weston: Guess what, Genius: nothing in the Internal Revenue Manual or the Treasury Regulations provides that ALL notices issued by the IRS must comply with section 6065. Yes, there might be specific IRS notices that are required by some regulation or other rule to be signed, etc., but section 6065 was not intended, as a general proposition, to apply to all IRS notices generally.

Weston, I'll bet you don't even know why section 6065 is on the books.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Weston White

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Weston White »

Famspear wrote:
Weston White wrote:And guess what[,] genius[,] the Secretary has implemented this through the vehicle known as the IRM [Internal Revenue Manual].

Everybody this thread is not for Quatloosians to make their rantings and blatherings it is for the OP of the other thread or those like him/her.
Dear Weston: Guess what, Genius: nothing in the Internal Revenue Manual or the Treasury Regulations provides that ALL notices issued by the IRS must comply with section 6065. Yes, there might be specific IRS notices that are required by some regulation or other rule to be signed, etc., but section 6065 was not intended, as a general proposition, to apply to all IRS notices generally.

Weston, I'll bet you don't even know why section 6065 is on the books.

Wrong, again, see:
4.10.1.5.3.2 (05-14-1999)
Written Communication
1. All taxpayer correspondence should be clear, concise, and professional, as well as adhering to legal requirements.
2. All correspondence should also strive to meet the needs of the taxpayer.
3. Where possible, all correspondence with taxpayers should be prepared using standard forms and letters, since the specific language in these documents has been approved for general use.
4. All correspondence must contain an employee name, contact telephone number, employee identification number, and signature. (See 1.6.9 below for more information).
5. Any original correspondence prepared by examiners should be approved by the group manager and such approval should be documented in the case file. If correspondence is not individually approved, managers must develop some type of ongoing review process to ensure the quality of correspondence
6. Groups should maintain read files of all taxpayer correspondence that does not use form letters.
7. Famspear you have been ELIMINATED!
8. Famspear we are afraid that we must inform you that you have been voted off of the island.
Famspear
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Famspear »

Weston White wrote:
Famspear wrote:
Weston White wrote:And guess what[,] genius[,] the Secretary has implemented this through the vehicle known as the IRM [Internal Revenue Manual].

Everybody this thread is not for Quatloosians to make their rantings and blatherings it is for the OP of the other thread or those like him/her.
Dear Weston: Guess what, Genius: nothing in the Internal Revenue Manual or the Treasury Regulations provides that ALL notices issued by the IRS must comply with section 6065. Yes, there might be specific IRS notices that are required by some regulation or other rule to be signed, etc., but section 6065 was not intended, as a general proposition, to apply to all IRS notices generally.

Weston, I'll bet you don't even know why section 6065 is on the books.

Wrong, again, see:
4.10.1.5.3.2 (05-14-1999)
Written Communication
1. All taxpayer correspondence should be clear, concise, and professional, as well as adhering to legal requirements.
2. All correspondence should also strive to meet the needs of the taxpayer.
3. Where possible, all correspondence with taxpayers should be prepared using standard forms and letters, since the specific language in these documents has been approved for general use.
4. All correspondence must contain an employee name, contact telephone number, employee identification number, and signature. (See 1.6.9 below for more information).
5. Any original correspondence prepared by examiners should be approved by the group manager and such approval should be documented in the case file. If correspondence is not individually approved, managers must develop some type of ongoing review process to ensure the quality of correspondence
6. Groups should maintain read files of all taxpayer correspondence that does not use form letters.
7. Famspear you have been ELIMINATED!
8. Famspear we are afraid that we must inform you that you have been voted off of the island.
I'm on the island, and you're in the lagoon.

No, that IRM provision does not say that all notices must comply with section 6065. It doesn't say that ANY notices must comply with section 6065. It does say that notices have to be "signed."

More to the point: You just cited a provision of the Internal Revenue Manual. The IRM is not the law. Section 6065 is the law. And, even if an IRS notice did not comply with this IRM provision, the taxpayer generally would have no legal basis for challenging the notice. The IRM is not generally legally binding on the IRS in its dealings with the taxpayer (with maybe a few exceptions).

And the courts have ruled that section 6065 does not require that IRS notices be issued with a jurat.

Still, I'm impressed, Weston. You finally came up with something other than blather, even if it was wrong.
:wink:
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
Nikki

Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by Nikki »

WW was SO close, except that he missed the fact that the IRM section he cited (besides being 10 years out of date) applies to "Basic Examiner Responsibilities for Examination of Returns" and has absolutely nothing to do with computer-generated notices.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by ASITStands »

Nikki wrote:WW was SO close, except that he missed the fact that the IRM section he cited (besides being 10 years out of date) applies to "Basic Examiner Responsibilities for Examination of Returns" and has absolutely nothing to do with computer-generated notices.
Examination "correspondence" as opposed to Collection Notices managed by the Automated Collection System (ACS). There's a difference between "correspondence" and "notice."

Also, Weston has yet to explain the intent of Congress in enacting IRC § 6065.
Famspear wrote:Weston, I'll bet you don't even know why section 6065 is on the books.
S. REP. 81-685, S. Rep. No. 685, 81ST Cong., 1ST Sess. 1949, 1949 U.S.C.C.A.N. 1876 wrote:This section gives the Commissioner authority to eliminate the oath in the case of corporate, fiduciary, partnership, estate, and gift-tax returns, and other returns or statements. The present law eliminates the oath in the case of individual income-tax returns and employment-tax returns. These changes will not only relieve the taxpayers of the burden *1879 of notarizing their returns but will expedite the processing by the Bureau of returns which might otherwise have to be sent back for compliance with the oath requirement.
The intent of Congress in enacting IRC § 6065 was to eliminate the requirement of oath.

EDIT:

Weston,

The only way someone gets access to Senate Reports, such as S. Rep. 81-685, is by visiting a law library or having access to something like Westlaw. The above came from Westlaw.

These things are not determined by searching the Internal Revenue Manual.

I remember the first time I spoke with Respondent's Counsel in a tax court issue. He patiently explained that the IRM was not law, and therefore, could not be relied upon. We were not doing so, but we had cited the IRM in discussing a substitute return issue. Wrong.

We learned rather quickly that statute (and statute only) was acceptable law. Precedent is established by case law, and case law concerns differing opinions on either facts or law.

Precedents established by case law become the acceptable interpretation of statute.
Last edited by ASITStands on Mon May 04, 2009 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by jkeeb »

But I still say an oath when filing my 1040.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by webhick »

CaptainKickback wrote:
jkeeb wrote:But I still say an oath when filing my 1040.
Is a long string of profanity considered a valid oath, or just mere swearing?
Depends on the threats contained therein.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by ASITStands »

Weston. See my EDIT above.

The reason Quatloosians cite case law so often is the fact that's the only way we can know how any particular statute is understood today. Essentially, one definition of "common law" includes the idea, "the latest decision of a court of competent jurisdiction on the matter."

'Famspear' has been trying to help you understand, it's not simply a matter of finding some citation in agreement with your position in some case somewhere, but rather, understanding how the court actually ruled in the case, and what constitutes the holdings.

You can have alternative views on the Constitution or statutes.

You can even have alternative views of the terms used in either, but it will do you no good until you have a precedent in case law supporting your position. Citing from the dissenting opinion or from the briefs is no way to get to a precedent.

Until or unless you take your argument to court and prevail, you have nothing. And, until you do so, your case is a tragedy waiting to happen. Quatloosians have tried to sound a warning.

No one wants to see anyone suffer needlessly, and especially, when alternatives exist.

It's irrational to stick with a position that's never prevailed in court and that portends more loss than any one person should be subjected to. Stubbornness exacts a cruel price.

Think of your family! Think of your future. Right now, it's bleak.
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Re: "Weston Blathers to Gottago"

Post by . »

Nikki wrote:WW was SO close, except that he missed the fact that the IRM section he cited (besides being 10 years out of date) applies to "Basic Examiner Responsibilities for Examination of Returns" and has absolutely nothing to do with computer-generated notices.
Oh, c'mon. A legal "researcher" who has wasted untold hours of time posting gibberish and who is already famous for idiotically claiming that a losing party's argument was the opinion of the Supreme Court couldn't possibly make such a totally stupid and insipid mistake.
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