Remember, "No Dates/No Nukes." This is simple because nuclear weapons ("nukes") have a tendancy to blow things up (and in general this is "bad") and NESARA predictions ("dates") do the same to Dove & Co's credibility. Got it? Good. Now for some predictions and dates.
Mark: Timelines, Ascension, & NESARA Announcement?
Posted by admin On May - 22 - 2009
Mark,
I am curious how the notion of clearing our future timeline to 175 million years into the future works. Was there a timeline in which we continued in a time based 3D reality, whereas now that we are transcending dimensions into 5D time will not exist and that timeline simply needs to be cleared of what was going to happen in order to clear the path to ascension of humanity as a whole?
Secondarily, I hope i haven’t missed this information in a previous update, but has KOS or other sources confirmed that Obama did indeed mean directly that War Crime Trials/Arrests/NESARA would be accomplished by July11-20th? I know of the Ashtar telecall which is a big endorsement of course. Just wondered if we’d had other corroboration, and what to look for as we proceed to this date.
XXX,
Just as there are many separate strands in a fiber optic network so also are there many separate parallels to the timelines and many dimensional levels as well. Now, that should have cleared the muddy waters nicely?
I will back up a second by saying that the darkhats can ascend up through 11D WITHOUT OPENING their hearts.
At 11D they can go no further…as a darkhat…unless they go back to the 4th and succeed in 5D Heart Center opening. Only a heart-awakened One who is in full accord with the Law of the One can reach the integrated Self of the 12th Dimension…and thus qualify to ascend to the next (13D) octave.
Every dimension has many layers and levels. As our timelines expanded out to 175 million years, the WingMakers at that time saw that the only place along the timelines where an effective correction could be made was in our moment–actually started about 1930–through 2012.
Since every one of us exist (future perfect) on those timelines as well as this one, many/perhaps most of us answered the call and volunteered to send a portion of our essence back-into-this era to effect the needed changes.
We fully understood that to obtain the highest good for all we would, in effect, erase a portion of our own timelines and then recover that essence to use in our own future co-creations.
This was not a spur of the moment decision. Every other possibility was explored and it was clearly seen that the only alternative was to heal it once and for all, here and now.
So that was when we designed the solution of incarnating into each of the 12 tribes and then heal the differences within by opening our hearts and continuing that until it succeeded…about now.
If you listen to Obama’s 5/9 speech & Ashtar’s 5/19 CC you’ll notice some blank areas. Faction 3 sources have filled in those blanks to help us all to understand what can not yet be publicly stated.
Obama said I will complete my 2nd 100 days’ goals in 72 days. Since his first 100 days’ ended on 4/29, that 72 days calculates out, I believe, to 7/10/09. Ashtar then, in principle, repeated Obama’s statements and asked us to mark our calendars ‘carefully’ and begin to empower that vision of completion as a co-creative empowerment.
We were asked–by Ashtar– to embrace and support Obama as he takes the actions…including War Crimes Trials in the Hague; Arrests of the 100,000 indictees; revelations of Galactic Presence above, within and upon the surface of the earth and; NESARA’s Announcement within that 72 days. All of these are critical elements required before we have decloakings and NESARA’s enablement.
Now, add the Gulf of Aden Stargate and Edgar Mitchell and Stephen Bassett’s mutual deadline to Obama, delivered on 4/20/09, that called for disclosure by May 30, 2009 or Mitchell and Bassett would be assisting other countries like France, China or Russia, who have already expressed an interest in disclosing the information if Obama fails to act within that window.
Still another forecasted happening is the opening of a new stargate around 19.5 degrees–Coral Castle latitude line, in Florida, around the end of May.
We will all be watching, waiting and visioning these positive changes.
MarkHuber
Any clues on timing from the Lavender Lad?
That Lavender Lad took a stroll through the Bilderbergers’ meeting and 5 glowing ‘holograms’ flamed out.
Everything we’re hearing still says we’re on target, but NO DATES/NO NUKES still applies.
As Ashtar stated on Tuesday night’s CC, Obama has already told us HIS schedule to ‘have all his 2nd 100 days work completed’.
Among those are the War Crimes Trials of the 100,000 indicted ones. Another ‘to do’ item is the public revelations of the Galactic Presence in the air, on the ground, and beneath the ground (hollow earth). The final item which will be compelled by the first two is the Announcement of NESARA.
So, Obama’s schedule completes on 7/11/09.
I guess you have to take him at his word. Since he is also talking with the Lavender Lad and others, I would suspect that they share a harmonious view on the monetary resolution as well as the other 2 issues cited.
Mark
NO DATES/NO NUKES
Moderator: Deep Knight
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Deep Knight
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NO DATES/NO NUKES
"Follow the Money"
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Deep Knight
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Re: NO DATES/NO NUKES
Webster SoDak east of Aberdeen if you catch my drift...
Mark on Progress since October, 2008…
Posted by admin On May - 25 - 2009
Mark,
We now have significant cause to expect NESARA and the events leading to it to manifest by July 10th, 2009 pending information and corroboration by the Galactics to this point.
My question is what has changed that would give greater credence to this information when compared to October 2008? I recall significant focus on announcement by the end of that month and a general imminence at that time.
It would seem logical that clearing out the dragons of inner earth and the like would have been seen as having to be accomplished at that time, yet announcement was imminent. </snip>
Namaste,
XXX
XXX,
I would have to get into a different space to go back and second guess what was perceived ‘as imminent’ right after KOS put us Inside NESARA Law. We were in the midst of an unprecedented National Election process which in spite of every type of manipulation and fraud available to NeoCons…Obama won that election!
The GOP still wonders what went wrong with the electronic voting that was already considered a ’slam dunk’. Well, that cuts both ways. We were a bit over-enthusiastic and elated at the election miracle. Then realities set in and we saw that much still had to be done ‘behind the curtain’ even though it will all be retroactive to 10/1/08…when our announcement comes.
So, now, we have Obama’s 72-day deadline ending on 7/10. We have Dr Stephen Bassett’s deadline of something needing to be released on the galactic presence by 5/30. We have the NASA crew that went up and met the GF–in the form of Altarians–who ‘asked them to amend their mission’ to upload nanites into the Hubble so that it can be a part of something bigger that is coming very soon.
These last details were gotten from a brief Q & A with Mother Sekhmet in two short intervals between some other work today. Those Altamarians are the same 12 Scientists that RichardBoylan told us about 1.5 years ago and whom have been actively working with the ocean environment and even technologies being felt on our sun and in the unprecedented regrowth of coral on the Great Barrier Reef of Australia and off Hainan Island in the Gulf of Tonkin.
These are just a few of the additional items we’ve learned about since 10/1/08. Add the holographic replacement of the members of the Committee of 300; 80%+ of the Old Dragons; new regulations issued by Obama; signing statements nullified; executive orders cancelled; orders issued to Leon Paneta the New CIA Director to create a way to declassify and release technological secrets that go back to the Truman Administration…orders to close Gitmo…and much more.
We can see that there have been supportive trends that are building on KOS’s placing us Inside NESARA Law on 10/1/08. We have also been told that the big banks’ heads have been mostly replaced by holograms along with 400 members or more of the 535 members of Congress and the factual shipment of 34 shipments of Gold from Europe to certain secure banks in the US to support NESARA when announced is ‘material’ evidence. Also, we’ve been informed that the New US Treasury Notes to replace the Fed Res Notes are in the banks.
Even Thom Hartmann has stated this on live radio.
I’d say these are tangible, relevant and responsible actions that when combined with the 100,000 indictees by 56 grand juries are making it possible and probable that we will be able to meet Obama’s schedule. In fact I’d suggest that the pace of activities including the public star-craft landing in Webster, SD, are swiftly advancing us towards our next phase.
Another minor advancement is our DNA upgrades which are continuing 24/7 and another positive shot came this weekend with the New Moon in Gemini and willcontinue through 6/21 in connecting and activating our higher dimensional multidimensional communications capacities. All of those before 7/10. Catch my drift?
MarkHuber
Mark on Progress since October, 2008…
Posted by admin On May - 25 - 2009
Mark,
We now have significant cause to expect NESARA and the events leading to it to manifest by July 10th, 2009 pending information and corroboration by the Galactics to this point.
My question is what has changed that would give greater credence to this information when compared to October 2008? I recall significant focus on announcement by the end of that month and a general imminence at that time.
It would seem logical that clearing out the dragons of inner earth and the like would have been seen as having to be accomplished at that time, yet announcement was imminent. </snip>
Namaste,
XXX
XXX,
I would have to get into a different space to go back and second guess what was perceived ‘as imminent’ right after KOS put us Inside NESARA Law. We were in the midst of an unprecedented National Election process which in spite of every type of manipulation and fraud available to NeoCons…Obama won that election!
The GOP still wonders what went wrong with the electronic voting that was already considered a ’slam dunk’. Well, that cuts both ways. We were a bit over-enthusiastic and elated at the election miracle. Then realities set in and we saw that much still had to be done ‘behind the curtain’ even though it will all be retroactive to 10/1/08…when our announcement comes.
So, now, we have Obama’s 72-day deadline ending on 7/10. We have Dr Stephen Bassett’s deadline of something needing to be released on the galactic presence by 5/30. We have the NASA crew that went up and met the GF–in the form of Altarians–who ‘asked them to amend their mission’ to upload nanites into the Hubble so that it can be a part of something bigger that is coming very soon.
These last details were gotten from a brief Q & A with Mother Sekhmet in two short intervals between some other work today. Those Altamarians are the same 12 Scientists that RichardBoylan told us about 1.5 years ago and whom have been actively working with the ocean environment and even technologies being felt on our sun and in the unprecedented regrowth of coral on the Great Barrier Reef of Australia and off Hainan Island in the Gulf of Tonkin.
These are just a few of the additional items we’ve learned about since 10/1/08. Add the holographic replacement of the members of the Committee of 300; 80%+ of the Old Dragons; new regulations issued by Obama; signing statements nullified; executive orders cancelled; orders issued to Leon Paneta the New CIA Director to create a way to declassify and release technological secrets that go back to the Truman Administration…orders to close Gitmo…and much more.
We can see that there have been supportive trends that are building on KOS’s placing us Inside NESARA Law on 10/1/08. We have also been told that the big banks’ heads have been mostly replaced by holograms along with 400 members or more of the 535 members of Congress and the factual shipment of 34 shipments of Gold from Europe to certain secure banks in the US to support NESARA when announced is ‘material’ evidence. Also, we’ve been informed that the New US Treasury Notes to replace the Fed Res Notes are in the banks.
Even Thom Hartmann has stated this on live radio.
I’d say these are tangible, relevant and responsible actions that when combined with the 100,000 indictees by 56 grand juries are making it possible and probable that we will be able to meet Obama’s schedule. In fact I’d suggest that the pace of activities including the public star-craft landing in Webster, SD, are swiftly advancing us towards our next phase.
Another minor advancement is our DNA upgrades which are continuing 24/7 and another positive shot came this weekend with the New Moon in Gemini and willcontinue through 6/21 in connecting and activating our higher dimensional multidimensional communications capacities. All of those before 7/10. Catch my drift?
MarkHuber
"Follow the Money"
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Deep Knight
- Posts: 5397
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
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Re: NO DATES/NO NUKES
I've been waiting for someone to note that "No Dates, No Nukes - the teenage years" is a chapter in Kim Jong Il's autobiography, but no matter. Here's more on Webster, SoDak (Population 1952, birthplace of Tom Brokaw)
UFO Landing in South Dakota
Posted by admin On May - 16 - 2009
An astounding news report that was published on Business Week website and then hastily removed has set the UFO community on fire, at least briefly.
The report states that:
‘A shocking revelation in the science world has been made today as we are getting reports saying an Alien spacecraft has landed in the small city of Webster, South Dakota.
Hundreds crowded a parking lot at busy factory outlet as a spherical craft descended from clear skies and made it’s landing on U.S. soil. Witnesses say power within a mile had gone out. Hand held devices, cameras and even vehicles stopped working before the craft made its landing, therefore, many witnesses could not take photographs of the craft.
The craft along with the crowd was in silence. Many people ran away in fear before the craft even landed. After a short while of watching the craft, witnesses say a part of the door on the lower portion opened up and a ramp came extended out to the ground. Two creatures, approximately 4 feet tall with large heads, large eyes, no noses and a slip for mouth, as described by witnesses, walked down the ramp and onto Earth grounds. The beings were said to have matched the descriptions of an extra-terrestrial species we call “Greys”.
“We felt a sense of relief”, said witness, Rob Chan. “We were scared, but we couldn’t move. It was an astonishing site. It felt as if they were trying to communicate with us but we just couldn’t understand.”
The beings walked back into the craft as the ramp closed back up behind them and after a few tense moments of waiting, the spaceship silently ascended upwards, moved towards the nearby lake and shot into the sky and that is when it disappeared. It was only a short while after when hand held devices and phones started working again. People started taking pictures of the sky hoping the craft would come back (seen in the picture).
The fire department and police were called to the scene but could not do anything about what had just happened. Military officials were notified of the incident and the area is being cleared and the area is being tested for possible radioactivity.’
Mark on Galactic Races & S. Dakota UFO Landing
Posted by admin On May - 16 - 2009
[The question for Mark was. "Given the recent comments regarding Sheldan Nidle's semi-truth / semi-disinfo channellings, could you please comment on whether or not his description of various Galactic Fed races on his website (link below) is accurate, and if not, is there a more accurate summary anywhere on the net at this time (or even photo's)? Given that decloakings will take place near announcements, I think it would be a good thing if we had reliable descriptions of the most common (Sirian, Pleiadian, Andromedan, Arcturian, etc), so that we could focus on the commonalities / similarities to minimise fear / concern if we're (inevitably) asked what they're like during announcements, rather than just give out an unhelpful "I don't know" or worse, the wrong answers based on disinfo."]
Mark: I believe we will have far better information and it will be coming forth so quickly that I would suggest to read what is available.
As more balanced information becomes available, many do know these answers, we will indicate those references. Physical aspects are the bottom of the barrel in appreciating and knowing what another species represents. We are still too 3D oriented and fear-constricted to appreciate the nuances of higher forms of intelligence.
That is changing and we will soon have access to many more appropriate ways to learn and remember the truth that fin, fur, winged or any other externals are only ‘rental units’ for divine spirit.
We were suns, planets and galaxies and gods/goddesses before we descended. We have studied and played with powerful elementals of water, air, earth, fire and cosmic ether and rejoiced with fairies, elven folk and sparkling and shining ones, who taught us their magics. Why would we settle for anything less as we prepare for our return to those loftly levels.
The journey back up through the dimensions will be like one who has stashed precious gifts along our downward path and now we can begin to recover those uniquely valuable assets and incorporate them in our new work.
In 5D+ we can alter or choose amongst all the possibilities and would dislike being pigeonholed or restricted to any one format.
Many of us have agreed and did in fact incarnate into all 12 tribes as part of our plan to heal the separations by healing them within ourselves first, and then we will have no trouble engaging and loving all our expressions for the unique wisdoms and skills they add to each other and reflect back to us from other ones like us.
We are going to co-create galactic round tables of equals or equivalents where all votes are equal. We will have no enemies because we will be expressing and being divine love-wisdom in action.
I know I have enjoyed many mergers and many experiences and wisdoms shared from and with many others who came forward from within and without to assist when the need was there. You will enjoy being without fear and having the ability to merge with plants, trees, rocks, and all kinds/types of beings.
We contain a universal library within our DNA. One of the best kept secrets in the universe. We and the planet are living libraries of incredible knowledge to which we hold the keys. One merger-read of our DNA could allow a long destroyed spacial family to completely restore their ancient home-world to it’s original splendor.
We have a lot to offer as we gain our awakened remembrance of who and what we truly are.
The last few pieces are coming together now.
The unprecedented approval for the Grey-ET spherical ship to peacefully land in South Dakota yesterday, and even more incredibly, to be reported on a top Business Week Online News outlet where it then spread across the internet like wildfire, was a tipping point in the 60+year coverup of galactic presence.
That no cameras would work within that area shows the degree of preparation that was involved for this ’staged event’. The government’s followup and roping off the area, was like closing the barn-door after the horses are already out of the barn. That single report cracked the lid on the coverup…and gives Obama the lead-in for what comes next. He has already issued the order to Leon Paneta to release all the information…going back to the Truman administration on ET technology transfers, anti-gravity and other agreements without compromising national security. That would include the false front that NASA represents to provide cover for the NSA space development operations. Leon is also working with Dr Stephen Bassett, a well respected lobbyist with a long credibility within Congress and the UFO facts community.
The timetable is not known but is considered to be short…perhaps less than 2 months…has been suggested by some involved…and that would accord with Obama’s ‘72 days’ timeframe to have these matters concluded.
We were told that such a peaceful incident would be the signal that the end of the coverup is very near.
That means that the World Court is about to do something formal…perhaps at the request of Congress/Patrick Fitzgerald. In fact, we understand that Congressional committees are meeting now to discuss these matters. These are serious meetings and we are awaiting some word as to what the actions will be. I know that it is hard to comprehend a situation in which many of the top ones are holograms, and that is exactly what this situation involves. The Committee of 300 and over 400 of the 535 members of Congress are in that ‘film-star’ status. Bush/Cheney/QueenE-II/etc. too.
Bourne Ultimatum & Matrix Revolution rolled into one! Now we have a new Star Trek movie and Angels & Demons debuting on the ’silver screen’. Can you see the dots connecting? Do you have some popcorn handy? It’s gonna get even more exciting and …then… MotherSekhmet will lift the curtain on the final scene in this oldest drama in the universe. You’ll love the Swan Song she sings for these ones…as ships decloak all around the planet…and the House lights are turned up.
Mark Huber
AllNews has the following comment:
Most observers are fairly certain that the report was a prank perpetrated by someone with access to the Business Week website.The fact that the report contained a picture of the crowd but not the spaceship has not helped build its credibility. The photo itself has been described as hardly depicting a crowd witnessing an earth shattering event (Some people in it appear to be eating cotton candy!).
Is it possible that the event did occur and someone in the media was able to publish the story within a small window of opportunity prior to the supposed cover-up machine going into full swing? Undoubtedly some UFO buffs and conspiracy theorists will promoting that viewpoint.
UFO Landing in South Dakota
Posted by admin On May - 16 - 2009
An astounding news report that was published on Business Week website and then hastily removed has set the UFO community on fire, at least briefly.
The report states that:
‘A shocking revelation in the science world has been made today as we are getting reports saying an Alien spacecraft has landed in the small city of Webster, South Dakota.
Hundreds crowded a parking lot at busy factory outlet as a spherical craft descended from clear skies and made it’s landing on U.S. soil. Witnesses say power within a mile had gone out. Hand held devices, cameras and even vehicles stopped working before the craft made its landing, therefore, many witnesses could not take photographs of the craft.
The craft along with the crowd was in silence. Many people ran away in fear before the craft even landed. After a short while of watching the craft, witnesses say a part of the door on the lower portion opened up and a ramp came extended out to the ground. Two creatures, approximately 4 feet tall with large heads, large eyes, no noses and a slip for mouth, as described by witnesses, walked down the ramp and onto Earth grounds. The beings were said to have matched the descriptions of an extra-terrestrial species we call “Greys”.
“We felt a sense of relief”, said witness, Rob Chan. “We were scared, but we couldn’t move. It was an astonishing site. It felt as if they were trying to communicate with us but we just couldn’t understand.”
The beings walked back into the craft as the ramp closed back up behind them and after a few tense moments of waiting, the spaceship silently ascended upwards, moved towards the nearby lake and shot into the sky and that is when it disappeared. It was only a short while after when hand held devices and phones started working again. People started taking pictures of the sky hoping the craft would come back (seen in the picture).
The fire department and police were called to the scene but could not do anything about what had just happened. Military officials were notified of the incident and the area is being cleared and the area is being tested for possible radioactivity.’
Mark on Galactic Races & S. Dakota UFO Landing
Posted by admin On May - 16 - 2009
[The question for Mark was. "Given the recent comments regarding Sheldan Nidle's semi-truth / semi-disinfo channellings, could you please comment on whether or not his description of various Galactic Fed races on his website (link below) is accurate, and if not, is there a more accurate summary anywhere on the net at this time (or even photo's)? Given that decloakings will take place near announcements, I think it would be a good thing if we had reliable descriptions of the most common (Sirian, Pleiadian, Andromedan, Arcturian, etc), so that we could focus on the commonalities / similarities to minimise fear / concern if we're (inevitably) asked what they're like during announcements, rather than just give out an unhelpful "I don't know" or worse, the wrong answers based on disinfo."]
Mark: I believe we will have far better information and it will be coming forth so quickly that I would suggest to read what is available.
As more balanced information becomes available, many do know these answers, we will indicate those references. Physical aspects are the bottom of the barrel in appreciating and knowing what another species represents. We are still too 3D oriented and fear-constricted to appreciate the nuances of higher forms of intelligence.
That is changing and we will soon have access to many more appropriate ways to learn and remember the truth that fin, fur, winged or any other externals are only ‘rental units’ for divine spirit.
We were suns, planets and galaxies and gods/goddesses before we descended. We have studied and played with powerful elementals of water, air, earth, fire and cosmic ether and rejoiced with fairies, elven folk and sparkling and shining ones, who taught us their magics. Why would we settle for anything less as we prepare for our return to those loftly levels.
The journey back up through the dimensions will be like one who has stashed precious gifts along our downward path and now we can begin to recover those uniquely valuable assets and incorporate them in our new work.
In 5D+ we can alter or choose amongst all the possibilities and would dislike being pigeonholed or restricted to any one format.
Many of us have agreed and did in fact incarnate into all 12 tribes as part of our plan to heal the separations by healing them within ourselves first, and then we will have no trouble engaging and loving all our expressions for the unique wisdoms and skills they add to each other and reflect back to us from other ones like us.
We are going to co-create galactic round tables of equals or equivalents where all votes are equal. We will have no enemies because we will be expressing and being divine love-wisdom in action.
I know I have enjoyed many mergers and many experiences and wisdoms shared from and with many others who came forward from within and without to assist when the need was there. You will enjoy being without fear and having the ability to merge with plants, trees, rocks, and all kinds/types of beings.
We contain a universal library within our DNA. One of the best kept secrets in the universe. We and the planet are living libraries of incredible knowledge to which we hold the keys. One merger-read of our DNA could allow a long destroyed spacial family to completely restore their ancient home-world to it’s original splendor.
We have a lot to offer as we gain our awakened remembrance of who and what we truly are.
The last few pieces are coming together now.
The unprecedented approval for the Grey-ET spherical ship to peacefully land in South Dakota yesterday, and even more incredibly, to be reported on a top Business Week Online News outlet where it then spread across the internet like wildfire, was a tipping point in the 60+year coverup of galactic presence.
That no cameras would work within that area shows the degree of preparation that was involved for this ’staged event’. The government’s followup and roping off the area, was like closing the barn-door after the horses are already out of the barn. That single report cracked the lid on the coverup…and gives Obama the lead-in for what comes next. He has already issued the order to Leon Paneta to release all the information…going back to the Truman administration on ET technology transfers, anti-gravity and other agreements without compromising national security. That would include the false front that NASA represents to provide cover for the NSA space development operations. Leon is also working with Dr Stephen Bassett, a well respected lobbyist with a long credibility within Congress and the UFO facts community.
The timetable is not known but is considered to be short…perhaps less than 2 months…has been suggested by some involved…and that would accord with Obama’s ‘72 days’ timeframe to have these matters concluded.
We were told that such a peaceful incident would be the signal that the end of the coverup is very near.
That means that the World Court is about to do something formal…perhaps at the request of Congress/Patrick Fitzgerald. In fact, we understand that Congressional committees are meeting now to discuss these matters. These are serious meetings and we are awaiting some word as to what the actions will be. I know that it is hard to comprehend a situation in which many of the top ones are holograms, and that is exactly what this situation involves. The Committee of 300 and over 400 of the 535 members of Congress are in that ‘film-star’ status. Bush/Cheney/QueenE-II/etc. too.
Bourne Ultimatum & Matrix Revolution rolled into one! Now we have a new Star Trek movie and Angels & Demons debuting on the ’silver screen’. Can you see the dots connecting? Do you have some popcorn handy? It’s gonna get even more exciting and …then… MotherSekhmet will lift the curtain on the final scene in this oldest drama in the universe. You’ll love the Swan Song she sings for these ones…as ships decloak all around the planet…and the House lights are turned up.
Mark Huber
AllNews has the following comment:
Most observers are fairly certain that the report was a prank perpetrated by someone with access to the Business Week website.The fact that the report contained a picture of the crowd but not the spaceship has not helped build its credibility. The photo itself has been described as hardly depicting a crowd witnessing an earth shattering event (Some people in it appear to be eating cotton candy!).
Is it possible that the event did occur and someone in the media was able to publish the story within a small window of opportunity prior to the supposed cover-up machine going into full swing? Undoubtedly some UFO buffs and conspiracy theorists will promoting that viewpoint.
"Follow the Money"
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Deep Knight
- Posts: 5397
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
- Location: Washington DC
Re: NO DATES/NO NUKES
2000 Years of False Predictions About the End of the World
By Thomas Williamson
3131 S. Archer Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60608
For 2000 years now, misguided Christians have misused the prophecies of the Bible, especially the book of Revelation, to do that which Christ forbids us to do in Matthew 24:36 - set dates for Christ's Second Coming.
Some of the biggest money-making prophecy books of our time have been those which relate events in Revelation to our own time, thus leading to the conclusion that we are now in the "Terminal Generation." But there is nothing new about this genre of prophetic malarkey.
Jonathan Kirsch, in "A History of the End of the World,", notes that "More than a few readers of Revelation in every age, including our own, have thrilled at the idea that the end is near. . . . they persist in poring over the text of Revelation in a fresh attempt to figure out the precise date when it will [end]. They have always been wrong, too, of course, but nothing has discouraged the so-called date setters who study the text, crunch the numbers, and come up with dates when the world must end. Not a single century has passed since the ink dried on the first copy of Revelation without some new prediction of the precise date when its prophecies will finally come to pass."
The first known date-setters were the Montanists, who arose about 156 AD. One of their prophetesses, Maximilla, predicted, "After me there will be no more prophecy, but the End."
The Montanist Church Father Tertullian (late 2nd Century) said, "The biblical command, ‘increase and multiply,' is annulled by the fact that we are living in the last age."
Pope Gregory the Great, about 600 AD, said, ‘I don't know what is happening in other parts of the world, but in this country where we live the world no longer announces its end but demonstrates it."
In 775 the Spanish monk Beatus of Liébana announced that the end would come about 800 AD: "Every catholic ought to ponder, wait and fear, and to consider these 25 years, as if they were not more than an hour, and should weep day and night in sackcloth and ashes for their destruction and the world's, but not strive to calculate time."
Pope Gregory VII, in the 11th Century, said, "The nearer the time of Antichrist approaches, the harder he fights to crush out the Christian faith."
Joachim of Fiore about 1184, taught that the final battle between God and Satan "will not take place in the days of your grandchildren or in the old age of your children, but in your own days, few and evil." He identified the Muslim general Saladin as one of the 7 heads of the Beast of Revelation 13. He informed King Richard the Lion-Hearted that the Saracen army was the Beast rising out of the sea of the book of Revelation, and that the Antichrist (the Pope) was already residing in Rome.
The Spiritual Franciscans, in the 13th Century, saw their founder Francis of Assisi as the "Angel of the 6th Seal" and as one of the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11. They also fingered Pope John XXII as the Antichrist.
Prophecy experts saw the Mongol invasion of 1237 as a fulfillment of the prophecy of the "Kings of the East" and the drying up of the river Euphrates.
Ubertino de Casale, (1259-1330), identified Popes Boniface VIII and Benedict XI as the Land and Sea Beasts of Revelation 13, and calculated the value of Benedict XI's name as 666.
A "Brother John" predicted that 2 Antichrists would arise in 1365 and 1370, and that Jerusalem would soon be rebuilt to serve as the capital of the coming millennial kingdom on earth.
Michael Stifel, a German mathematician, used the pulpit of Martin Luther's church to announce that the end times would begin on October 19, 1533 at 8:00 AM.
In 1606 Nicholas Raimarus published a book in Nuremberg, Germany entitled "Chronological, Certain, and Irrefutable Proof, from the Holy Scripture and Fathers, That the World Will Perish and the Last Day Will Come Within 77 Years."
The "Fifth Monarchy Men" proclaimed the imminent advent of Christ's theocratic kingdom, and almost took over the English Parliament in 1653. When Oliver Cromwell sent troops to suppress them in 1656, they cried, "Lord, appear, now or never!" You guessed it - Christ didn't show up.
George Bell announced that Christ would descend to earth on February 28, 1763. John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, opposed that teaching and preached all night on the day Christ was supposed to come, to try to calm the nerves of the agitated crowds.
In 1971, Ronald Reagan declared a recent coup in Libya to be a sign of the end: "That's a sign that the day of Armageddon isn't far off. Everything's falling into place. It can't be long now." Supposedly Libya was to fulfill end-times prophecies by aligning with the Soviet Union. Since that time, the Soviet Union has fallen and Libya is now aligned with the United States. (So much for all the signs of the times "falling into place)."
In 1980 televangelist Pat Robertson announced that "The onrush of events toward the end of the year may see the world in flames. I guarantee you by the fall of 1982 there is going to be a judgment on the world."
In 1979 Jerry Falwell denounced the Camp David peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, saying, "This treaty will not be a lasting treaty. You and I know there's not going to be any real peace in the Middle East until the Lord Jesus sits down upon the throne of David in Jerusalem." After almost 30 years, the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt has remained intact.
These are just a few of the hundreds of examples that could be given, from the 2nd Century up to modern times, of predictions based on the Book of Revelation or other Bible prophecies, that failed to come true. There is a constant torrent of new prophecies of this nature coming forth today, and they need to be regarded with skepticism. Everything that the Bible teaches is true, but the Bible was never meant to reveal the date of Christ's coming or the other detailed scenarios of end-times events that are falsely deduced from obscure Bible verses lifted out of context.
Delusion of the Millerites - No One to Be Saved After 1844
The story of the Millerite movement in the Northeastern USA, which taught that Christ would return on October 22, 1844, is well known. Their delusion was amply supported by prophecies wrenched out of their historical context from the Books of Daniel, Revelation, etc.
Those who refused to embrace the 1844 date for Christ's return were accused of apathy, of spiritual blindness and of perhaps not even being saved. In 1836, William Miller wrote, "I did not think the door would be closed until about AD 1839 - but what does this general apathy mean. After the door is shut - he that is filthy will remain so." Joseph Marsh, on October 2, 1844, proclaimed that soon "The door of salvation will be forever closed."
When Christ was a no-show in 1844, some Adventist groups continued to teach the "shut-door" doctrine which insisted that it was impossible for anyone not already saved before October 22, 1844 to come to salvation. After the passage of some years, it became necessary to quietly drop this inconvenient notion, in order for the Adventist churches to be able to admit new converts as members.
Whitney Cross, in his book "The Burned-Over District," reports on how the Millerites and Adventists found "signs of the times" in all the news events and social trends of their day: "The breaking and scattering of churches; reluctance to imbibe sound doctrine; the spread of seducing beliefs like Shakerism, Catholicism and free thought; false prophets and teachers; and the ‘scattering of holy people' - such occurrences received increasing attention. . . . They found the world beyond rescue, legislatures corrupt, and infidelity, idolatry, Romanism, sectarianism, seduction, fraud, murder and duels all waxing stronger. One of the chief reasons for a sudden terminus was the feeling ‘that every associated body . . . when once occupied . . . has never been regenerated; but has fallen into pollution.' Church and state alike had filled ‘the cup of iniquity' and were ‘now fitted for destruction.'"
This type of negative, pessimistic preaching about how things are inevitably and irretrievably getting worse and worse, thus "proving" that Christ must return soon, is as prevalent today as it was during the Millerite excitements. But such preaching has no more predictive value today, as to the timing of Christ's return, than it did when the Millerites used it to prove the 1844 return of Christ.
Delusion of the Jehovah's Witnesses - Date Setting Frenzy
In 1917, the Jehovah's Witnesses proclaimed, "In the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions, it shall be that any escape shall come through the works of Russell." (Charles Taze Russell was the founder of the Russellites, or Jehovah's Witnesses).
In 1918 the book "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," confidently stated that "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the conditions of human perfection."
Watchtower magazine on August 15, 1968 stated that "The Battle of Armageddon will be over by the autumn of 1975. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years."
Delusion of the Branch Davidians, the Wackos of Waco
The Mount Carmel compound of the Branch Davidians, near Waco, Texas, was established in 1935 by Bulgarian-American prophet Victor Houteff, who chose the state of Texas, based on a reference in Isaiah 19:24 to "in the midst of the land" which Houteff interpreted to be Texas.
(Such interpretations may seem bizarre, but they are no more so than those of respected prophecy teachers who find references to "the United States in prophecy" in such obscure places as "beyond the rivers of Ethiopia," Isaiah 18:1, and Tarshish or Tartessus, a city in southern Spain, Isaiah 60:9. These are the folks who endlessly boast about their "literal interpretation" of Bible prophecy and yet change Spain and Ethiopia into "the United States." Or maybe they are just really lousy at geography).
In 1955, Houteff's widow Florence Houteff, announced that God's earthly kingdom would be established on April 22, 1959. Mrs. Houteff prophesied that on that date, "the faithful would be slaughtered, resurrected and carried up to heaven." A whole lot of other stuff was supposed to happen on that day: War would break out in the Middle East, all Jews and Arabs would be cleared out of Jerusalem, the Davidic Kingdom would be ushered in, Victor Houteff would come back from the dead, etc.
One thousand faithful followers gathered at Mount Carmel to be wafted up to heaven, having previously given up all their possessions. But nothing happened.
When that prophecy failed, Ben Roden, who had argued for a 1960 date for the end, formed a splinter group called the Branch Davidians. Vernon Howell eventually made himself leader of this group and changed his name to David Koresh.
Koresh saw himself as the Seventh Angel of Revelation 1 and the Lamb of Revelation 5, and believed that he and his followers were living in the time of the breaking of the Seven Seals. When federal agents besieged his compound in 1993, he regarded their activities as the necessary fulfillment of the prophecy of the Fifth Seal, and refused to surrender. As a result, he and almost all of his followers were killed after the compound was set on fire as federal agents sought to break in.
Delusion of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God - "Prediction Addiction"
Joseph Tkach, in the book "Transformed by Truth," noted that Worldwide Church of God founder Herbert Armstrong set dates for the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth: "Mr. Armstrong . . . offered many predictions about its timing (all of which failed to come true). He said that the Worldwide Church of God would first be miraculously transported to a place of safety, probably Petra - an ancient, walled city in the south of Jordan, a place of protection against the terrors of Armageddon - in 1936. He later mistakenly predicted that this event would occur in ‘43 and then again in ‘72. Three and a half years after the church was taken to safety, Christ would return and the battle of Armageddon would commence. When all these predictions failed and numbers of people left the church in response, he became much more careful about setting prophetic dates."
Tkach, himself a prominent Worldwide Church of God leader, goes on to list more false prophecies of Herbert Armstrong that appeared in the Plain Truth magazine:
"When the former Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1980, Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘In the past 2 weeks, this world has entered into a "whole new ball game." The intervention of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan changes the whole world picture.' A few pages later he asked, ‘Can WE discern the signs of the times? END-TIME EVENTS are going to happen FAST from here on! The 80s well might see the END of this present world; WAKE UP!'
"A few months later Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘Signs are now fast appearing that our Work of the GREAT COMMISSION may be much more near completed than we have realized.' And in a related article in the same publication he ventured his prediction that ‘God's great work through His church (Philadelphia era) may be FINISHED in a matter of months.'
"On June 30, 1980, Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘This present election travesty may well be the very LAST political election for the presidency of the United States, with little incompetent men vying for the coveted prize.'
"On March 6, 1981, Mr. Armstrong said that ‘conditions in the world fulfilling biblical prophecies are now fast accelerating, indicating that we are indeed in the last of the last days' and predicted that ‘terrible, frightful things are going to happen in the next few years that are going to take the lives of probably 2/3 or more of all the people now living on the face of the earth.'"
Tkach admits that "We also made more than 100 prophetic predictions that failed. For one, we said that Europe was going to unite and take the American and British people into subjection and slavery. We predicted this would happen by the early 1970s - and of course, it didn't.
"The sad fact is that for 50 years we predicted the end of the world would come in just 4 to 7 short years. When those 4 to 7 years passed into history without our predictions coming true, we'd say that the world would end in another 4 to 7 short years. . . . "
Tkach goes on to list false prophecies by WCG minister Roderick Meredith published in the Plain Truth:
1957 - "After 1965, we are destined to run into increasing trouble with the Gentile nations. America and Britain will begin to suffer from trade embargoes imposed by the brown and oriental races . . . We will begin to experience the pangs of starvation and the scarcity of goods!"
1963 - "You might as well wake up and FACE FACTS! The world you live in won't be here 15 years from now!"
1965 - "Frankly, literally dozens of prophesied events indicate that this final revival of the Roman Empire in Europe - and its bestial PERSECUTION of multitudes of Bible-believing Christians - will take place within the next 7 to 10 years of YOUR LIFE!"
Tkach concludes his review of false WCG prophecies by saying, "Our prayers are that God will touch the hearts of those still gripped by such cognitive dissonance, those who are suffering from prediction addiction."
It will come as no surprise to some that the Worldwide Church of God discredited itself by propagating so many wacky, zany false prophecies. There was no reason to expect anything different - after all, they were a false cult.
The problem is that there are many basically orthodox, evangelical, Trinitarian ministries that are still putting out their date-setting and prophetic speculations, in the same manner as the WCG used to do. Just as the WCG discredited their whole cultish, anti-Trinitarian, British-Israelite system by their failed prophecies, we who are true evangelicals tend to discredit our basically sound system of doctrine when we put forth our false, speculative prophecies.
I respectfully disagree with men such as Hank Hanegraaff and Jack Hayford who felt that the Worldwide Church of God reformed itself enough to be accepted as a true New Testament church with totally sound doctrine. I don't see it that way.
However, I do feel that Joseph Tkach and the WCG deserve credit and gratitude for the way they have publicly repudiated and apologized for the false prophecies and "Prediction Addiction" of their denomination. Many of us as evangelicals and fundamentalists need to make our own apologies, and renounce our date-setting errors and "Prediction Addiction."
Date-Setting - An Unethical Ministry Tool
Date-setting for Christ's Second Coming is a ministry tool that has been used by orthodox, Bible-believing groups (Millerites, Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, etc.) as well as heretical cultish groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Worldwide Church of God).
It is an effective ministry tool, a tactic that works for various types of groups, because there are always plenty of people who are seeking otherwise forbidden and unavailable knowledge about the details of the future and the timing of Christ's Second Coming.
Any preacher who wants to build up the crowds, donations, and book and video sales needs only to start offering inside information on the dating of Christ's Second Coming and the signs of that coming. In many cases, the preacher may sincerely believe his own predictions and not necessarily be motivated by desire for monetary gain.
Yes, date-setting and signs of the times preaching are effective ministry strategies, but they are ultimately invalid and unethical, because these predictions over a period of 2000 years have always been wrong, and because the Bible tells us we are not authorized to have this type of specific knowledge about the future (Mark 13:32, Acts 1:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, etc.)
The favorite proof text for the date-setters is Amos 3:7, "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." This, like the other proof texts, they use, has been lifted from its context. Amos is speaking here of God's promise to reveal the coming judgment on Israel by the Assyrians, which took place in 722 BC. God says He will reveal this secret to His prophets who are under divine inspiration, including Amos.
We do not have any such inspired prophets today. We have no promise from God that He will let us know the date of Christ's return. "Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matthew 24:44)
By Thomas Williamson
3131 S. Archer Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60608
For 2000 years now, misguided Christians have misused the prophecies of the Bible, especially the book of Revelation, to do that which Christ forbids us to do in Matthew 24:36 - set dates for Christ's Second Coming.
Some of the biggest money-making prophecy books of our time have been those which relate events in Revelation to our own time, thus leading to the conclusion that we are now in the "Terminal Generation." But there is nothing new about this genre of prophetic malarkey.
Jonathan Kirsch, in "A History of the End of the World,", notes that "More than a few readers of Revelation in every age, including our own, have thrilled at the idea that the end is near. . . . they persist in poring over the text of Revelation in a fresh attempt to figure out the precise date when it will [end]. They have always been wrong, too, of course, but nothing has discouraged the so-called date setters who study the text, crunch the numbers, and come up with dates when the world must end. Not a single century has passed since the ink dried on the first copy of Revelation without some new prediction of the precise date when its prophecies will finally come to pass."
The first known date-setters were the Montanists, who arose about 156 AD. One of their prophetesses, Maximilla, predicted, "After me there will be no more prophecy, but the End."
The Montanist Church Father Tertullian (late 2nd Century) said, "The biblical command, ‘increase and multiply,' is annulled by the fact that we are living in the last age."
Pope Gregory the Great, about 600 AD, said, ‘I don't know what is happening in other parts of the world, but in this country where we live the world no longer announces its end but demonstrates it."
In 775 the Spanish monk Beatus of Liébana announced that the end would come about 800 AD: "Every catholic ought to ponder, wait and fear, and to consider these 25 years, as if they were not more than an hour, and should weep day and night in sackcloth and ashes for their destruction and the world's, but not strive to calculate time."
Pope Gregory VII, in the 11th Century, said, "The nearer the time of Antichrist approaches, the harder he fights to crush out the Christian faith."
Joachim of Fiore about 1184, taught that the final battle between God and Satan "will not take place in the days of your grandchildren or in the old age of your children, but in your own days, few and evil." He identified the Muslim general Saladin as one of the 7 heads of the Beast of Revelation 13. He informed King Richard the Lion-Hearted that the Saracen army was the Beast rising out of the sea of the book of Revelation, and that the Antichrist (the Pope) was already residing in Rome.
The Spiritual Franciscans, in the 13th Century, saw their founder Francis of Assisi as the "Angel of the 6th Seal" and as one of the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11. They also fingered Pope John XXII as the Antichrist.
Prophecy experts saw the Mongol invasion of 1237 as a fulfillment of the prophecy of the "Kings of the East" and the drying up of the river Euphrates.
Ubertino de Casale, (1259-1330), identified Popes Boniface VIII and Benedict XI as the Land and Sea Beasts of Revelation 13, and calculated the value of Benedict XI's name as 666.
A "Brother John" predicted that 2 Antichrists would arise in 1365 and 1370, and that Jerusalem would soon be rebuilt to serve as the capital of the coming millennial kingdom on earth.
Michael Stifel, a German mathematician, used the pulpit of Martin Luther's church to announce that the end times would begin on October 19, 1533 at 8:00 AM.
In 1606 Nicholas Raimarus published a book in Nuremberg, Germany entitled "Chronological, Certain, and Irrefutable Proof, from the Holy Scripture and Fathers, That the World Will Perish and the Last Day Will Come Within 77 Years."
The "Fifth Monarchy Men" proclaimed the imminent advent of Christ's theocratic kingdom, and almost took over the English Parliament in 1653. When Oliver Cromwell sent troops to suppress them in 1656, they cried, "Lord, appear, now or never!" You guessed it - Christ didn't show up.
George Bell announced that Christ would descend to earth on February 28, 1763. John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, opposed that teaching and preached all night on the day Christ was supposed to come, to try to calm the nerves of the agitated crowds.
In 1971, Ronald Reagan declared a recent coup in Libya to be a sign of the end: "That's a sign that the day of Armageddon isn't far off. Everything's falling into place. It can't be long now." Supposedly Libya was to fulfill end-times prophecies by aligning with the Soviet Union. Since that time, the Soviet Union has fallen and Libya is now aligned with the United States. (So much for all the signs of the times "falling into place)."
In 1980 televangelist Pat Robertson announced that "The onrush of events toward the end of the year may see the world in flames. I guarantee you by the fall of 1982 there is going to be a judgment on the world."
In 1979 Jerry Falwell denounced the Camp David peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, saying, "This treaty will not be a lasting treaty. You and I know there's not going to be any real peace in the Middle East until the Lord Jesus sits down upon the throne of David in Jerusalem." After almost 30 years, the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt has remained intact.
These are just a few of the hundreds of examples that could be given, from the 2nd Century up to modern times, of predictions based on the Book of Revelation or other Bible prophecies, that failed to come true. There is a constant torrent of new prophecies of this nature coming forth today, and they need to be regarded with skepticism. Everything that the Bible teaches is true, but the Bible was never meant to reveal the date of Christ's coming or the other detailed scenarios of end-times events that are falsely deduced from obscure Bible verses lifted out of context.
Delusion of the Millerites - No One to Be Saved After 1844
The story of the Millerite movement in the Northeastern USA, which taught that Christ would return on October 22, 1844, is well known. Their delusion was amply supported by prophecies wrenched out of their historical context from the Books of Daniel, Revelation, etc.
Those who refused to embrace the 1844 date for Christ's return were accused of apathy, of spiritual blindness and of perhaps not even being saved. In 1836, William Miller wrote, "I did not think the door would be closed until about AD 1839 - but what does this general apathy mean. After the door is shut - he that is filthy will remain so." Joseph Marsh, on October 2, 1844, proclaimed that soon "The door of salvation will be forever closed."
When Christ was a no-show in 1844, some Adventist groups continued to teach the "shut-door" doctrine which insisted that it was impossible for anyone not already saved before October 22, 1844 to come to salvation. After the passage of some years, it became necessary to quietly drop this inconvenient notion, in order for the Adventist churches to be able to admit new converts as members.
Whitney Cross, in his book "The Burned-Over District," reports on how the Millerites and Adventists found "signs of the times" in all the news events and social trends of their day: "The breaking and scattering of churches; reluctance to imbibe sound doctrine; the spread of seducing beliefs like Shakerism, Catholicism and free thought; false prophets and teachers; and the ‘scattering of holy people' - such occurrences received increasing attention. . . . They found the world beyond rescue, legislatures corrupt, and infidelity, idolatry, Romanism, sectarianism, seduction, fraud, murder and duels all waxing stronger. One of the chief reasons for a sudden terminus was the feeling ‘that every associated body . . . when once occupied . . . has never been regenerated; but has fallen into pollution.' Church and state alike had filled ‘the cup of iniquity' and were ‘now fitted for destruction.'"
This type of negative, pessimistic preaching about how things are inevitably and irretrievably getting worse and worse, thus "proving" that Christ must return soon, is as prevalent today as it was during the Millerite excitements. But such preaching has no more predictive value today, as to the timing of Christ's return, than it did when the Millerites used it to prove the 1844 return of Christ.
Delusion of the Jehovah's Witnesses - Date Setting Frenzy
In 1917, the Jehovah's Witnesses proclaimed, "In the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions, it shall be that any escape shall come through the works of Russell." (Charles Taze Russell was the founder of the Russellites, or Jehovah's Witnesses).
In 1918 the book "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," confidently stated that "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the conditions of human perfection."
Watchtower magazine on August 15, 1968 stated that "The Battle of Armageddon will be over by the autumn of 1975. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years."
Delusion of the Branch Davidians, the Wackos of Waco
The Mount Carmel compound of the Branch Davidians, near Waco, Texas, was established in 1935 by Bulgarian-American prophet Victor Houteff, who chose the state of Texas, based on a reference in Isaiah 19:24 to "in the midst of the land" which Houteff interpreted to be Texas.
(Such interpretations may seem bizarre, but they are no more so than those of respected prophecy teachers who find references to "the United States in prophecy" in such obscure places as "beyond the rivers of Ethiopia," Isaiah 18:1, and Tarshish or Tartessus, a city in southern Spain, Isaiah 60:9. These are the folks who endlessly boast about their "literal interpretation" of Bible prophecy and yet change Spain and Ethiopia into "the United States." Or maybe they are just really lousy at geography).
In 1955, Houteff's widow Florence Houteff, announced that God's earthly kingdom would be established on April 22, 1959. Mrs. Houteff prophesied that on that date, "the faithful would be slaughtered, resurrected and carried up to heaven." A whole lot of other stuff was supposed to happen on that day: War would break out in the Middle East, all Jews and Arabs would be cleared out of Jerusalem, the Davidic Kingdom would be ushered in, Victor Houteff would come back from the dead, etc.
One thousand faithful followers gathered at Mount Carmel to be wafted up to heaven, having previously given up all their possessions. But nothing happened.
When that prophecy failed, Ben Roden, who had argued for a 1960 date for the end, formed a splinter group called the Branch Davidians. Vernon Howell eventually made himself leader of this group and changed his name to David Koresh.
Koresh saw himself as the Seventh Angel of Revelation 1 and the Lamb of Revelation 5, and believed that he and his followers were living in the time of the breaking of the Seven Seals. When federal agents besieged his compound in 1993, he regarded their activities as the necessary fulfillment of the prophecy of the Fifth Seal, and refused to surrender. As a result, he and almost all of his followers were killed after the compound was set on fire as federal agents sought to break in.
Delusion of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God - "Prediction Addiction"
Joseph Tkach, in the book "Transformed by Truth," noted that Worldwide Church of God founder Herbert Armstrong set dates for the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth: "Mr. Armstrong . . . offered many predictions about its timing (all of which failed to come true). He said that the Worldwide Church of God would first be miraculously transported to a place of safety, probably Petra - an ancient, walled city in the south of Jordan, a place of protection against the terrors of Armageddon - in 1936. He later mistakenly predicted that this event would occur in ‘43 and then again in ‘72. Three and a half years after the church was taken to safety, Christ would return and the battle of Armageddon would commence. When all these predictions failed and numbers of people left the church in response, he became much more careful about setting prophetic dates."
Tkach, himself a prominent Worldwide Church of God leader, goes on to list more false prophecies of Herbert Armstrong that appeared in the Plain Truth magazine:
"When the former Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1980, Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘In the past 2 weeks, this world has entered into a "whole new ball game." The intervention of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan changes the whole world picture.' A few pages later he asked, ‘Can WE discern the signs of the times? END-TIME EVENTS are going to happen FAST from here on! The 80s well might see the END of this present world; WAKE UP!'
"A few months later Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘Signs are now fast appearing that our Work of the GREAT COMMISSION may be much more near completed than we have realized.' And in a related article in the same publication he ventured his prediction that ‘God's great work through His church (Philadelphia era) may be FINISHED in a matter of months.'
"On June 30, 1980, Mr. Armstrong wrote, ‘This present election travesty may well be the very LAST political election for the presidency of the United States, with little incompetent men vying for the coveted prize.'
"On March 6, 1981, Mr. Armstrong said that ‘conditions in the world fulfilling biblical prophecies are now fast accelerating, indicating that we are indeed in the last of the last days' and predicted that ‘terrible, frightful things are going to happen in the next few years that are going to take the lives of probably 2/3 or more of all the people now living on the face of the earth.'"
Tkach admits that "We also made more than 100 prophetic predictions that failed. For one, we said that Europe was going to unite and take the American and British people into subjection and slavery. We predicted this would happen by the early 1970s - and of course, it didn't.
"The sad fact is that for 50 years we predicted the end of the world would come in just 4 to 7 short years. When those 4 to 7 years passed into history without our predictions coming true, we'd say that the world would end in another 4 to 7 short years. . . . "
Tkach goes on to list false prophecies by WCG minister Roderick Meredith published in the Plain Truth:
1957 - "After 1965, we are destined to run into increasing trouble with the Gentile nations. America and Britain will begin to suffer from trade embargoes imposed by the brown and oriental races . . . We will begin to experience the pangs of starvation and the scarcity of goods!"
1963 - "You might as well wake up and FACE FACTS! The world you live in won't be here 15 years from now!"
1965 - "Frankly, literally dozens of prophesied events indicate that this final revival of the Roman Empire in Europe - and its bestial PERSECUTION of multitudes of Bible-believing Christians - will take place within the next 7 to 10 years of YOUR LIFE!"
Tkach concludes his review of false WCG prophecies by saying, "Our prayers are that God will touch the hearts of those still gripped by such cognitive dissonance, those who are suffering from prediction addiction."
It will come as no surprise to some that the Worldwide Church of God discredited itself by propagating so many wacky, zany false prophecies. There was no reason to expect anything different - after all, they were a false cult.
The problem is that there are many basically orthodox, evangelical, Trinitarian ministries that are still putting out their date-setting and prophetic speculations, in the same manner as the WCG used to do. Just as the WCG discredited their whole cultish, anti-Trinitarian, British-Israelite system by their failed prophecies, we who are true evangelicals tend to discredit our basically sound system of doctrine when we put forth our false, speculative prophecies.
I respectfully disagree with men such as Hank Hanegraaff and Jack Hayford who felt that the Worldwide Church of God reformed itself enough to be accepted as a true New Testament church with totally sound doctrine. I don't see it that way.
However, I do feel that Joseph Tkach and the WCG deserve credit and gratitude for the way they have publicly repudiated and apologized for the false prophecies and "Prediction Addiction" of their denomination. Many of us as evangelicals and fundamentalists need to make our own apologies, and renounce our date-setting errors and "Prediction Addiction."
Date-Setting - An Unethical Ministry Tool
Date-setting for Christ's Second Coming is a ministry tool that has been used by orthodox, Bible-believing groups (Millerites, Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, etc.) as well as heretical cultish groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, Branch Davidians, Worldwide Church of God).
It is an effective ministry tool, a tactic that works for various types of groups, because there are always plenty of people who are seeking otherwise forbidden and unavailable knowledge about the details of the future and the timing of Christ's Second Coming.
Any preacher who wants to build up the crowds, donations, and book and video sales needs only to start offering inside information on the dating of Christ's Second Coming and the signs of that coming. In many cases, the preacher may sincerely believe his own predictions and not necessarily be motivated by desire for monetary gain.
Yes, date-setting and signs of the times preaching are effective ministry strategies, but they are ultimately invalid and unethical, because these predictions over a period of 2000 years have always been wrong, and because the Bible tells us we are not authorized to have this type of specific knowledge about the future (Mark 13:32, Acts 1:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, etc.)
The favorite proof text for the date-setters is Amos 3:7, "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." This, like the other proof texts, they use, has been lifted from its context. Amos is speaking here of God's promise to reveal the coming judgment on Israel by the Assyrians, which took place in 722 BC. God says He will reveal this secret to His prophets who are under divine inspiration, including Amos.
We do not have any such inspired prophets today. We have no promise from God that He will let us know the date of Christ's return. "Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matthew 24:44)
"Follow the Money"
-
Deep Knight
- Posts: 5397
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
- Location: Washington DC
Re: NO DATES/NO NUKES
From Lord Rama, Lady Tara, and Chump Mark Huber's Galactic Round Table. I pass the talking stick...
MARK – This is a good lead-in. Thank you Rama; thank you Tara. As you know, one of the most uncovered stories is the galactic presence. Trillions of ships are in our skies and have been. They are going to be decloaking.
A number of them are going to be landing. We had one landing already that was official that happened in Webster, South Dakota. [It’s a] very small conservative town. That town was chosen on purpose by Ashtar because it is a conservative area.
These people are farming communities for the most part. They’re not much interested in the internet or other things even though they do have internet. It is a matter of testing out what an unprepared would do until [cut out] occurs. As result of that they did land one ship.
MARK – What I was saying is this lead-in of the actual, authorized and verified by Ashtar landing in the United States of this craft –not decloaking – actually landing on US soil, two gray individuals who are part of the Ashtar Command (and not the Cabal) walked out of their craft on to the land.
This is all very important; this is legal stuff we are saying here, right now. This is the beginning folks. This was test to see if across the nation, in small areas, what is going on in terms of the potential reactions of people.
The reactions were about what was expected. There were some people that denied that anything even happened in their community in spite of the national and international attention – world wide attention – that this received. This is going to be true in the future.
There are plenty historical examples. When the Spanish first came here, the Indians had not seen the ships and so they had no concept, no frame of reference so they did not actually see the ships until the people actually came ashore even though they were big ships and right off the shore. If your filters are on, you think you are seeing nothing or hearing nothing or experiencing nothing because you have filtered out everything that is not known.
This won’t work in the time we are in now. I am saying this because this is not an isolated example. We’re going to see people in your neighborhood, my neighborhood, everyone’s neighborhood, everyone’s country that are going to deny even if the skies are filled with ships, even if they hear on every radio and television, they will simply say that’s not real.
That’s fiction; that’s some kind of a soap opera or projection. In other words, they will refuse to accept it. We now know because of this current test that, in fact, enough will that probably around 2/3 of the people will accept this and are prepared for it
Some were just curious and interested; others were excited and very positively welcoming. Others were neutral. That’s wonderful. That’s absolutely wonderful news.
In light of that, I would like to say, with that as an introduction, that the Galactic presence is the single, most important, not covered story, and we are privileged tonight, to have one of our GRT members, who has become an active member of GRT, working — and Ill let her tell you about anything she wants to say about the subject of what shes doing now for GRT; Beth Truthwin.
MARK – This is a good lead-in. Thank you Rama; thank you Tara. As you know, one of the most uncovered stories is the galactic presence. Trillions of ships are in our skies and have been. They are going to be decloaking.
A number of them are going to be landing. We had one landing already that was official that happened in Webster, South Dakota. [It’s a] very small conservative town. That town was chosen on purpose by Ashtar because it is a conservative area.
These people are farming communities for the most part. They’re not much interested in the internet or other things even though they do have internet. It is a matter of testing out what an unprepared would do until [cut out] occurs. As result of that they did land one ship.
MARK – What I was saying is this lead-in of the actual, authorized and verified by Ashtar landing in the United States of this craft –not decloaking – actually landing on US soil, two gray individuals who are part of the Ashtar Command (and not the Cabal) walked out of their craft on to the land.
This is all very important; this is legal stuff we are saying here, right now. This is the beginning folks. This was test to see if across the nation, in small areas, what is going on in terms of the potential reactions of people.
The reactions were about what was expected. There were some people that denied that anything even happened in their community in spite of the national and international attention – world wide attention – that this received. This is going to be true in the future.
There are plenty historical examples. When the Spanish first came here, the Indians had not seen the ships and so they had no concept, no frame of reference so they did not actually see the ships until the people actually came ashore even though they were big ships and right off the shore. If your filters are on, you think you are seeing nothing or hearing nothing or experiencing nothing because you have filtered out everything that is not known.
This won’t work in the time we are in now. I am saying this because this is not an isolated example. We’re going to see people in your neighborhood, my neighborhood, everyone’s neighborhood, everyone’s country that are going to deny even if the skies are filled with ships, even if they hear on every radio and television, they will simply say that’s not real.
That’s fiction; that’s some kind of a soap opera or projection. In other words, they will refuse to accept it. We now know because of this current test that, in fact, enough will that probably around 2/3 of the people will accept this and are prepared for it
Some were just curious and interested; others were excited and very positively welcoming. Others were neutral. That’s wonderful. That’s absolutely wonderful news.
In light of that, I would like to say, with that as an introduction, that the Galactic presence is the single, most important, not covered story, and we are privileged tonight, to have one of our GRT members, who has become an active member of GRT, working — and Ill let her tell you about anything she wants to say about the subject of what shes doing now for GRT; Beth Truthwin.
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