Quixtar v. Monavie

[wserra]

It's hard to know whom to root for on this one.

Quixtar (Amway) is suing Monavie in federal court in Utah over stealing its reps. The complaint is here. In essence, Quixtar claims that Monavie is enticing its reps away with such claims as Monavie cures cancer. They wouldn't do that, would they? Well, Quixtar says they do. Are Quixtar reps so dumb that they believe it? Apparently so.

In the complaint, Quixtar quotes from promotional Monavie videos such as the following, between distributor (Hart) and customers (Sanders, Purvis):

Hart: Okay, well, how long have you been on the product?
Sanders: Three weeks.
Hart: And, how much you drinking?
Sanders: Three ounces in the morning and three ounces in the afternoon.
Hart: Praise God. That always does my heart good. Okay, what’s happened since you been on it?
Sanders: Dropped my blood pressure down to 135 over about 85. It was 190 over 120. Lost five pounds --
Hart: (whisper) Come on.
Sanders: And my sister-in-law just called me tonight. She has fibromyalgia. She had one bottle.
Hart: (whisper) This is good.
Sanders: And her neck and arm was stopped hurting, and she’s been off it for two days, and now she’s begging for another bottle.
...
Purvis: . . . the doctor found cancer cells, spots on my left -- my right ovary and my right breast. And, Brenda had came to my house, did the first meeting in Claxton and she told me, she said, “Don’t have the surgery yet. Drink the MonaVie -- Give it some time.”
Hart: (whisper) My God. You told her that?
Purvis: Three-and-a-half weeks later, the doctor’s office called. Wanted me to go in and set up the time for the surgery. I told them I felt so much better. That there were so many things my body could do that it wasn’t allowing me to do before. And, so I went back and had some tests done. There is no cancer cells anywhere in my body.

And then there's the medical gibberish from a pet doctor, one Lou Niles:

I am the guy you don’t want to really know because I am the doctor of “last resort” it seems, and I am usually dealing with end-stage cancers . . . . I very reluctantly got involved in MonaVie. I only got involved in it when I realized there that something else was going on in the combination of the juices that Dr. Carson put together. And it’s more than just fruit juices – it’s the combination that seems to be working. So, I have never lost a cancer patient yet . . . .
The reason is that MonaVie is so loaded with antioxidants and anti-inflammatories that it immediately scrubs all the smoke that is being produced by the body and it immediately stops and slows down oxidation. It can’t [prevent oxidation] at 100%, but it slows it down, and if you drink MonaVie on a regular basis for the rest of your life and it becomes part of your menu, you will have put in your body enough antioxidants to keep from aging at a rapid pace.
What it also does is it also allows your T-killer cells, which are your immune cells, to arrest a virus, bacteria, fungus or loose cancer cells. This is why it is such a cool product. There is no other food on the planet that can do this.

And from another pet doctor - this one also a distributor - one "Farid Zarif":

There are some diseases that you really have to be careful with and there are some things with the kidneys that the kidneys can not handle at different stages, but as far as cancer, and those inflammatory diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, even Crohn’s disease, Crohn’s disease is the inflammation of what? Your colon. All of these things, colitis, anything with “-itis” on the end, MonaVie can help it immediately, ok.

Well, then I guess they should call it "Monavitis".

Audience Member #10: We are going to be sharing Mona Vie with a really good friend of ours on Wednesday and we are giving them a lot of literature and samples, and he is going through radiation chemotherapy. Would you recommend that it is safe to start this? And what would you say his dosage would be?
Dr. Zarif: Yes, I would say about 4 ounces per day. And yes, and why, because of cellular proliferation. Yes, definitely with cancer patients, because the radiation kills the cancer and the person, and the same thing with chemo, but one thing that MonaVie has in it, remember we talked about the phyto-chemicals? Phyto-chemicals is the only substance that directly attacks cancer cells…It’s really a super good product, and when it comes to cells, and helping him, oh my god, you will be very happy that you did, very happy. His, platelet levels, his killer cells, his white blood cell count, things will change incredibly.

The rest of the complaint is almost as interesting.

Monavie's response? Well, these folks all said they wouldn't steal from Quixtar or say bad things. What do you want from us? Oh, and we may counterclaim for anti-trust violations.

This could get fun.

[Doktor Avalanche]

The chump factor is breathtaking.

[wserra]

The chump factor is breathtaking.

Yes, indeed.

Now factor in that these things are pyramids.

[wserra]

Monavie has moved to strike paragraphs 89-91 of Quixtar's complaint as "immaterial, impertinent, and scandalous". I could ask which of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure bars impertinent or scandalous material from complaints, but instead I thought I'd just reproduce that horrible material here.

89. MonaVie’s founder, Dallin Larsen, has a long history in the MLM business. Immediately prior to starting Monarch Health Sciences, a predecessor of MonaVie, Larsen was Vice President of Sales for Dynamic Essentials from December 27, 2001 until February 2003. Larsen has bragged that during his tenure, he directed a 300% increase in sales revenue. Dynamic Essentials during that timeframe marketed a health drink product called Royal Tongan Limu. It contained a “superfood” derived from a sea plant reportedly consumed by the people of the Pacific island of Tonga. Royal Tongan Limu shares a number of striking similarities with MonaVie’s products.

a. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed as a health drink with anti-oxidant properties;
b. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu used a “superfood” discovered in a remote location as it active ingredient;
c. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed in what look like wine bottles at a similar price;
d. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed with polished videos promoting nature;
e. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed as a daily drink of 2-4 ounces per day;
f. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed through a MLM; and
g. Just like MonaVie, Royal Tongan Limu was marketed with a variety of claimed health benefits for curing or preventing diseases and disorders such as cancer and diabetes.

90. The Food and Drug Administration issued a cyber letter to Dynamic Essentials in 2002 after it determined, based on an investigation of unsubstantiated therapeutic claims on the company's website, that Royal Tonga Limu was being promoted for treatment and mitigation of various diseases. The letter informed them that the marketing of Royal Tonga Limu was a violation of the law.

91. Shortly after Larsen left Dynamic Essentials, it ceased operation, and stopped promoting or selling Royal Tongan Limu. The remaining inventory was destroyed at a landfill in Desoto, Illinois under FDA supervision. The FDA issued the following statement at the time:
"Getting rid of these bogus products, from a company that was giving false information about health benefits to consumers, underscores the message from FDA to those who would mislead consumers about their health," said FDA Commissioner Mark B. McClellan, M.D., Ph.D. "We will not tolerate companies that raise false hopes for preventing and treating illnesses, when there are more scientifically proven steps than ever before that consumers can take to improve their health."
(See Ex. N, FDA Press Release.)

I think Monavie is easily scandalized.

[Doc Bunkum]

There's a nice site dedicated to Monavie - http://www.purplehorror.com - a hugely trafficked MonaVie discussion Web site so large that it's slow to load, and where outraged distributors and perhaps more level-headed juice fans trash the purple elixir.


As a story in Newsweek - A Drink’s Purple Reign - points out...

... most of the million-strong sales team is really just drinking the juice, according to MonaVie's 2007 income disclosure statement, a federally required printout of their distributor earnings. More than 90 percent were considered "wholesale customers," whose earnings are mostly discounts on sales to themselves. Fewer than 1 percent qualified for commissions and of those, only 10 percent made more than $100 a week. And the dropout rate, while not disclosed by MonaVie, is around 70 percent, according to a top recruiter.

Probably similar numbers apply to most MLM companies.

[Pottapaug1938]

"There is no honor among thieves"....

[Imalawman]

There's a nice site dedicated to Monavie - http://www.purplehorror.com - a hugely trafficked MonaVie discussion Web site so large that it's slow to load, and where outraged distributors and perhaps more level-headed juice fans trash the purple elixir.


As a story in Newsweek - A Drink’s Purple Reign - points out...

... most of the million-strong sales team is really just drinking the juice, according to MonaVie's 2007 income disclosure statement, a federally required printout of their distributor earnings. More than 90 percent were considered "wholesale customers," whose earnings are mostly discounts on sales to themselves. Fewer than 1 percent qualified for commissions and of those, only 10 percent made more than $100 a week. And the dropout rate, while not disclosed by MonaVie, is around 70 percent, according to a top recruiter.

Probably similar numbers apply to most MLM companies.

Yeah, but Quixstar is worse because they're more insidious. They steal a person's productive years by very deftly concealing the huge scam that it is. They don't claim to cure cancer - just "how to earn money by helping your friends make their own peanut butter and jelly sandwiches" .

[GoldandSilverEagles]

edited

[Doktor Avalanche]

His Irrelevance has spoken.

GaSE - Amway is a scam. It has always been a scam. It will always be a scam.

The fact they made 500 gajillion dollars is also irrelevant. The cocaine cartels of Columbia also rake in impressive profits - but at least they're up front about the illegality of their trade.

[GoldandSilverEagles]

His Irrelevance has spoken.

GaSE - Amway is a scam. It has always been a scam. It will always be a scam.

This forum thrives and insists on legal proof. Where's your doktor-hotrod? It's easy to make accusations.....what's your proof to back your accusations?

The fact they made 500 gajillion dollars is also irrelevant. The cocaine cartels of Columbia also rake in impressive profits - but at least they're up front about the illegality of their trade.

Your comparing a business that started off selling soaps, detergents, etc, and sold them with integrity with the goal of helping others to build a legal and legitimate business, with an illegal drug cartel that doesnt think twice as they kill people daily???? ~ And to top it off you claim Amway is illegal.

"Pyramid Scheme Accusations

Amway has several times been accused of being a pyramid scheme. A 1979 FTC investigation in the United States (see below) and a 2008 court judgement in the United Kingdom dismissed these claims.[63].

[edit] FTC Investigation
Main article: In re Amway Corp.

In a 1979 ruling,[16][64] the Federal Trade Commission found that Amway does not qualify as a pyramid scheme since Amway compensation system is based on retail sales to consumers, not payments for recruiting.

It did, however, order Amway to stop retail price fixing and allocating customers among distributors and prohibited the company from misrepresenting the amount of profit, earnings or sales its distributors are likely to achieve with the business. Amway was ordered to accompany any such statements with the actual averages per distributor, pointing out that more than half of the distributors do not make any money, with the average distributor making less than $100 per month. The order was violated with a 1986 ad campaign, resulting in a $100,000 fine.[65]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Amway may have had some problems legally, but the courts have ruled that Amway's operation is legal, and you cannot prove the same for the Colombian cocaine cartels that you arrogantly and ignorantly compare them with.

I've heard Amway compared to lots of different things, but your comparison with to illegal drug cartel is by far the least intelligent.

[Demosthenes]

Now your being plain ass stupid. Now your being a dumbass!!!

Dontcha just love it when the illiterati insult other people's intelligence.

Thanks for the new sig line, Chris.

[Doktor Avalanche]

[tripe deleted]

Touched a nerve, Chris?

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to decieve their marks by intentionally not telling them that it's Amway that is being pitched. Or, conversely, to lie to their marks by telling them "this isn't Amway".

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to cut off all ties from anyone, including friends and family, who speak negatively of Amway. (See also: "Amriffs").

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that tells their associates to not read any newspapers, watch any television, or listen to any radio and steers them to only read the propaganda that comes out of (surprise!) Amway.

Amway is a cult. It's also a scam - a scam that doesn't tell you that the only way you're ever going to get rich selling Amway is if you have 10 billion people in your downline and, last I checked, there are only 6.7 billion people on the planet - about two billion of them couldn't afford or have any practical use for the overpriced crap Amway sells through you, the kool-aid drinking zombie.

Where in the pyramid are you, sucker? And how does it feel to know you're making someone else rich while you do all the heavy lifting?

[GoldandSilverEagles]

BTW....your comments below are v-e-r-y typical of the uneducated.

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to decieve their marks by intentionally not telling them that it's Amway that is being pitched.

I don't know. And there is a good reason why they shy away from telling people. Amway is filled with people and people screw up. There are people who have done exceptionally well thru Amway (and I've personally met quite a few of them) and there are people who have been taken advantage of through Amway, as that happened to me in the early '80's.

There is good and bad with Amway. Some people do Amway as door to door sales, when it was never intended as such. So rather than risking a negatively preconceived image of Amway, IBO's prospect people want to avoid that possibility. IBO's want the opportunity of presenting the business in it;s entirety without having to battle preconceived notions.

A very good friend has been involved in three different lines of sponsorship, and none of them do the business exactly the same.

Or, conversely, to lie to their marks by telling them "this isn't Amway".

From 1999 to early 2009, legally it wasn't Amway in North America, it was Quixtar. With the advent of their 50th birthday, the owners of the overall business structure decided to change Quixtar to "Amway Global" for their North American business.

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to cut off all ties from anyone, including friends and family, who speak negatively of Amway. (See also: "Amriffs").

That's a new one on me, I've not heard that claim.

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that tells their associates to not read any newspapers, watch any television, or listen to any radio and steers them to only read the propaganda that comes out of (surprise!) Amway.

You perception is somewhat incorrect. They don't say that, they say the propaganda that comes out of business leadership organizations that are not Amway themselves.

But you make an excellent point. Why do they tell people to disconnect from a (predominantly negative) society? It's simple. Their suggestions stem from some laws of life and business.

Law of association. You become like the people you associate with. Look at the people you hang with, most people make a similiar income of those they associate with.

The leadership organizations lead by showing people how to program their minds for "success" thru success input. What do most of us find the tv and news filled with? Negative crap. By staying away from it, one protects their mind against the negative BS of society.

I for one dont watch the news often. What do I gain by putting all that negative BS in my mind?

Amway is a cult. It's also a scam - a scam that doesn't tell you that the only way you're ever going to get rich selling Amway is if you have 10 billion people in your down line and, last I checked, there are only 6.7 billion people on the planet -

I've never read that one has to have "10 billion" in their down line to get rich. Actually, people have gotten "rich" thru Amway with a whole lot less. lol

about two billion of them couldn't afford or have any practical use for the overpriced crap Amway sells through you, the kool-aid drinking zombie.

Price comparisons have been done proving that Amway products are priced competitively against the market.

Where in the pyramid are you, sucker? And how does it feel to know you're making someone else rich while you do all the heavy lifting?

Do you have a job? How do you feel about the owners getting rich on your efforts, little tad pole?

BTw...from a legal POV you still have not proved your accusations. You've supplied your opinion but they havent been backed by the courts.

Like a tax protestor, Your an AmProtestor. lol

[Doktor Avalanche]

The Federal Trade commission has only ruled that Amway is a legal pyramid scheme and not an illegal pyramid scheme. The FTC doesn't endorse Amway as a good business opportunity. It only says Amway is not engaged in illegal activities.

It's a pyramid scheme, get it? Albeit a legal one - but it's still a pyramid.

Yes, I'm an AmProtestor. They're a cult and a scam - any right minded person would protest their unethical practices - practices that you conveniently overlook while you spout at me the company line like a good little kool-aid swilling zombie.

So I ask you again: where in the pyramid are you, sucker?

Do you have a job? How do you feel about the owners getting rich on your efforts, little tad pole?

Considering I make 10 times more than any Amway distributor, work better hours and have better benefits I feel pretty good about it.

Here's an even better question, one that you couldn't possibly answer:

How much money are YOU making selling Amway?

[GoldandSilverEagles]

The Federal Trade commission has only ruled that Amway is a legal pyramid scheme and not an illegal pyramid scheme. The FTC doesn't endorse Amway as a good business opportunity. It only says Amway is not engaged in illegal activities.

It's a pyramid scheme, get it? Albeit a legal one - but it's still a pyramid.

I don't waste my time trying to convince folks like yourself.

From here onward, you are welcome to believe as you like.

So I ask you again: where in the pyramid are you, sucker?

Lol...I am amused in your choice of words. lol

Do you have a job? How do you feel about the owners getting rich on your efforts, little tad pole?

Here's an even better question, one that you couldn't possibly answer:

How much money are YOU making selling Amway?

When did i make the claim that I am making anything selling Amway? lol

[Demosthenes]

How much money are YOU making selling Amway?

When did i make the claim that I am making anything selling Amway? lol[/quote]

GaSE, what is EasyShare-STP?

http://easysharestp.com/

[Arthur Rubin]

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to decieve their marks by intentionally not telling them that it's Amway that is being pitched. Or, conversely, to lie to their marks by telling them "this isn't Amway".

The Scientologists?

Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to cut off all ties from anyone, including friends and family, who speak negatively of Amway. (See also: "Amriffs").

The Scientologists and the LDS Church?

Hmmm. I don't think I'm hurting your case; but there are such organizations....

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to decieve [sic] their marks by intentionally not telling them that it's Amway that is being pitched. Or, conversely, to lie to their marks by telling them "this isn't Amway".

Debt collectors.

[GoldandSilverEagles]

...
Name me one organization, besides Amway, that instructs their associates to decieve [sic] their marks by intentionally not telling them that it's Amway that is being pitched. Or, conversely, to lie to their marks by telling them "this isn't Amway".

Debt collectors.

Sounds like a man of experience.

[Doktor Avalanche]

The Federal Trade commission has only ruled that Amway is a legal pyramid scheme and not an illegal pyramid scheme. The FTC doesn't endorse Amway as a good business opportunity. It only says Amway is not engaged in illegal activities.

It's a pyramid scheme, get it? Albeit a legal one - but it's still a pyramid.

I don't waste my time trying to convince folks like yourself.

From here onward, you are welcome to believe as you like.

Oh, I can? Thanks, but I really didn't need your permission to begin with. But since you're feeling so magnanimous allow me to return the favor:

You're welcome to keep on behaving like a fool, throwing your money away and latching on to every batsh*t insane theory out there.

You don't waste time? That's precisely what you've been doing trying to convice me and everyone else here how groovy Amway is.

You don't realize that we Quatloosians have had more experience with Amway collectively than you've been alive and that nothing you're saying now isn't anything we haven't heard before.

Where in the pyramid are you, sucker?