Where can I find the definition?

[Judge Roy Bean]

...The system ran out of "money" to support the system many decades ago.

- Federal Reserve Notes are simply credit in the form of non-bearing promissory notes.
- Federal Reserve Notes are redeemable for "lawful money" but the system ran out of "money" so no redemption can take place. 12 USC 411
- Federal Reserve Notes are simply bills of credit that circulate as money because the system ran out of "money". I have no problem with people trading pieces of paper.

You're entitled to your opinions but my "So What?" light is flashing wildly. As others have mentioned over the years here, if you don't perceive any value in the Federal Reserve Notes you have laying around, please gather them up and give them to a local no-kill animal shelter. They'll put them to good use. I'm sure they'd take gold, too. Even gold coins. And if you want to make your contribution tax deductible, simply get a receipt from them; you choose, face value on the coins or spot market price for the gold.

[Demosthenes]

You apparently have not traveled the world much. I assure most of the world considers gold money.

In the last few years, I've been to places like Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Guatemala, Belize, Nicaragua, Panama, Mexico, Canada, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, England, Ireland, Dominican Republic, BVI, Jamaica, Malta, Monaco, Bermuda, Hong Kong, China, Guernsey, and probably others who just don't stand out in my memory. None of them use gold as money. In fact, most accept and a few even prefer US dollars as payment for day to day items.

In some parts of the world, gold and silver are the only things accepted.

Cool. Then it should be simple for you to provide us with a list of those countries.

[LegalEagleMan]

Cool. Then it should be simple for you to provide us with a list of those countries.

Sure. I lived in Europe twice, I believe I stepped foot in every country there on the west side at least once, I did not visit all of the former eastern bloc countries. My favorites are Netherlands and Spain. Now Turkey was ungodly with the amount of gold trading going on. Most of the places I have been to you could exchange gold for whatever you wanted, most Americans have never tried. A friend of mine just got back from Paris and kept talking about how many gold shops have opened up there, that is basically the same every where over the last decade.

I have been to countless countries in the Caribbean and if you include some of central America as Caribbean, on multiple occasions. Never been to anything in South America, I would like to go to Peru. Interesting enough never been to Mexico, but I have been to Canada quite often.

Now Asia is the place I need to go much more, although when the credit market finally collapses probably the last place I would want to be.

Back to the subject at hand instead going out wild tangents. NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES SETS THE VALUE OF "MONEY" IN THE UNITED STATES, nor any other entity other than Congress. See Constitution for details.

[Arthur Rubin]

The Congress could easily reset the value of "money" based on weights and measures, they do it all the time.

Nonsense. Congress can set the content of coins and the face value of currency (including coins); the value is up to the market.

[Brandybuck]

If you cannot give me the law then why even respond?

It sounds like you already have an answer, and just want to get into an argument with those who disagree with your legal theory. You're like a 9/11 Troofer who says "but I'm only asking questions!" but who refuse to listen to the answers, or an Aaron Russo who says "show me the law" but refuses to see the law when it held in front of his face.

[Brandybuck]

Cool. Then it should be simple for you to provide us with a list of those countries.

Sure. I lived in Europe twice, I believe I stepped foot in every country there on the west side at least once, I did not visit all of the former eastern bloc countries. [rest of travelogue trimmed for brevity]

Nowhere in your answer do you list a country that only accepts gold. That was your claim, so name one.

[Demosthenes]

Cool. Then it should be simple for you to provide us with a list of those countries.

Sure. I lived in Europe twice, I believe I stepped foot in every country there on the west side at least once, I did not visit all of the former eastern bloc countries. My favorites are Netherlands and Spain. Now Turkey was ungodly with the amount of gold trading going on. Most of the places I have been to you could exchange gold for whatever you wanted, most Americans have never tried. A friend of mine just got back from Paris and kept talking about how many gold shops have opened up there, that is basically the same every where over the last decade.

I have been to countless countries in the Caribbean and if you include some of central America as Caribbean, on multiple occasions. Never been to anything in South America, I would like to go to Peru. Interesting enough never been to Mexico, but I have been to Canada quite often.

Now Asia is the place I need to go much more, although when the credit market finally collapses probably the last place I would want to be.

Back to the subject at hand instead going out wild tangents. NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES SETS THE VALUE OF "MONEY" IN THE UNITED STATES, nor any other entity other than Congress. See Constitution for details.

Yet another non-responsive answer.

Your claim was that "In some parts of the world, gold and silver are the only things accepted."

Lets see the list.

[GoldandSilverEagles]

Gold and Silver are commodities and are valued as such. The price of them on any given date can be determined, although there may be several sightly different prices and if so the person valuing them for tax purposes can get away with whichever spot price they want to determine it, under an accounting principle known as materiality, or in short, may be a dolar or so different depending on whether you choose, say London, Chicago or whatever exchange. The denominations stamped on US Gold and silver coins minted since 1986 are what the Treasury promises to forever redeem them for. Meaning, if Gold goes below $50 an once, those gold Eagles will be worth more! But they're still, for tax purposes, worth at least the difference between what you paid for them and the bullion value of them on the date of whatever transaction is relevant for tax purposes.

Did he ask for info on what a dollar was worth or YOUR opinion of what a dollar should be worth?

And the 5 pages of nonsense brought to us by Emperor Liar 1, (Gold and Silver Eagles, he of faked quotes) is really that simple. The value of them is determined by spot prices on the date of a transaction, UNLESS it ever gets below the face value on them, which is the absolute lowest value they can ever be because below face value the Treasury will give you that for them.

That coming from a person who maintains and promotes the belief that outside factors regulate the value of a dollar, rather than Congress themselves.

So with that I hand you more "lies" Gregg:

What is a dollar? A dollar is a standard unit of measurement of money. 371 1/4 grains of silver minted (aka silverdollar) is a dollar.

(Please note, you don't see any FRN's in that definition.)

http://www.npn.net/

Greggy, if you believe I'm wrong, or lying once again, then take your whiny little attitude down to the US Mints and tell them they are wrong for printing "one dollar" on the back of every American Silver Eagles they mint.

Congress and Congress alone was made the authority in determining what a dollar is and what it is worth, as supported by the US Constitution:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 5: The Congress shall have Power…To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.

....and the US Supreme Court in Thompson v. Butler, 95 U.S. 694, 696 (1877), and not some business markets of exchange as you claim.

[iplawyer]

You are still an idiot. I seriously doubt you've traveled anywhere outside the US. If you did - you would know that grocery stores in other countries take credit cards and paper money. They do not take gold.

I am an idiot, yet I am not the one resorting to name calling because I have nothing else better to say.

All kinds of people in the world take gold. To say otherwise would be just silly. Now you start up with the name calling again, it's seem to be your ace card.

We are all waiting for you to tell any country where gold is accepted as money. And don't tell me Turkey - I lived there for two years and never encountered anyone trading in gold.

[LegalEagleMan]

We are all waiting for you to tell any country where gold is accepted as money. And don't tell me Turkey - I lived there for two years and never encountered anyone trading in gold.

Well, if you have a problem with your gold eagle with a $50 face value it surely would be amazing to me. I tell you what, you send me your gold eagles with $50 face or silver eagles with $1 face and I will free of charge exchange them for you in $50 FRNs and $1FRNs.

[Chemnor]

So still no law cited. You keep missing the point. So thanks but let's try this again with a place for you to simply cite the law that makes it a requirement. I just want to follow the law. Not your opinion. Not the IRS's opinion. Just the clear and unequivocal law as written by the people that represent me because if they didn't write it then there is taxation without representation and we have a large problem, AGAIN. Maybe if I give you an example you can cite the law too:

First the delegated power to the Congress from the States:
Constitution Art 1 Sec. 8
Congress shall have the power To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Then the law written by Congress as placed in the USC:
USC 31 § 5112 (d)
(1) United States coins shall have the inscription “In God We Trust”. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription “Liberty”. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions “United States of America” and “E Pluribus Unum” and a designation of the value of the coin.

USC 31 § 5112 (e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in quantities sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”;

So the Congressionally established value of a coin minted by the U.S. minty as per USC 31 § 5112 (e) as being One Dollar. If you dispute that please explain why by Citing another law that say that USC 31 § 5112 (e) is not law. Cite law here___________

Now just show me where Congress established the "value" of any denomination of Federal Reserve Notes as "One Dollar." Cite law here____________

I paid my dentist with 20 silver US coins minted since 1986 that are currently in circulation and legal tender according to USC 31. He kept them. How much should he report as income on his tax return? Cite law here____________

"worth their face value plus" As Calculated in What? Cite law here_________

If calculated in "dollars" please explain why a silver dollar minted since 1986 has the face value of ONE DOLLAR and Congress, the organization allowed to establish the "value" of money, (not the Treasury or the IRS) set that "value" on the coin and authorized it to be minted and placed into circulation without a limit on their numbers. Then cite the law that says Federal Reserve Notes are THE legal tender that are to be used to calculate the "value" established by Congress for other forms of legal tender that have Congressionally established values. Cite Law here__________

"gov’t is ultimately financially responsible." and will pay you in What? Cite law here_________

If you demand me to pay you for the note I signed to buy your car will you accept another note created and signed by me and backed by nothing but my word? Or will you require money and not more unsecured debt? (And please remember that I already have over obligations to pay over 50 Trillion in currently market valued FRNs (cause COngress certianly did not establish their value) in unsecured debt.) So I ask again... What will the government pay me in when it is "ultimately financially responsible" besides more unsecured debt? Cite law here________

"whatever the price of gold happens to be at that moment...." As calculated in what legally required form of legal tender? Cite law here_____________

So a $50 gold piece is currently worth 65 Silver Dollars? That is what the Federal Government witness in the Kahre case testified to last week. So what law requires anyone to calculate any alleged increase in the value in any other legal tender? Cite law here____________

If I sell 1000 FRNs for a $50 gold piece can I declare it as a loss on the 1040? If not why not? Cite Law here________

If I keep the $50 coin and don't exchange it for 65 silver dollars it is only worth $50, right? Only if I sell the $50 for some other form of legal tender would I have a gain IF I am forced by law to calculate the alleged increase in some other form of legal tender. What law requires me to do that and what form is legal tender is required? Cite law here________

The price of a one ounce $50 gold coin minted since 1986 is $50 in gold coin minted since 1986. If I buy a one ounce $50 gold coin minted since 1986 with 4 $10 1/4 ounce gold coins minted since 1986 what is the taxable increase? Cite law here____________

Or is it a loss? Cite law here____________

It is a fundamental tenet of due process that "[n]o one may be required at
peril of life, liberty or property to speculate as to the meaning of penal statutes."
Lanzetta v. New Jersey, 306 U.S. 451, 453 (1939). A criminal statute is therefore invalid
if it "fails to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated
conduct is forbidden." United States v. Batchelder, 442 U.S. 114, 123 (1979)

So why am I forced to speculate when no one can cite the law? Cite law here____________

What you guy have here is a religious cult. You have faith that FRNs are dollars (you sure can't cite the law so it must be faith in things unseen) and that silver and gold legal tender coins are not what Congress says they are (but you can't cite the law that says they are not dollars but only cite PRE 1986 coin cases about discontinued money that is no longer in circulation). If it was not faith you could cite the law. But you cannot because there isn't a law because it is a religious cult.

Marx like Jesus Economics as Religion, Economics as Religion, by Robert Nelson

No economic thinker, for example, was more outwardly antagonistic to religion than Karl Marx. Religion was for him the “opiate” of the masses. Yet, in retrospect, no social scientist better illustrates the power of underlying religious influences than Marx.... The prospect of escape from this terrible condition, however, is close at hand. God (now replaced in Marx by the economic laws of history) has promised to deliver the world from sin (alienation).

Now go say your prayers to your God now replaced by Marx by the economic laws of history.

[Thule]

We are all waiting for you to tell any country where gold is accepted as money. And don't tell me Turkey - I lived there for two years and never encountered anyone trading in gold.

Well, if you have a problem with your gold eagle with a $50 face value it surely would be amazing to me. I tell you what, you send me your gold eagles with $50 face or silver eagles with $1 face and I will free of charge exchange them for you in $50 FRNs and $1FRNs.

So, when are you going to name the countries that only accepts gold and silver?

[Chemnor]

Simple solution - use your own theory to determine what the values are and see what happens if you're prosecuted when you argue that you need to know what Congress says it is.

Until you've tested it in court, you're wasting your time. And ours.

It is never a waste of time to search for the truth. Even Buddha can tell you that.

And I did test it, but not in court. In order to go to court I would have needed to be arrested or at least charged with some crime. I have never had a single problem with the IRS. They agree with me and told me I was not required to file a 1040 well over a decade ago. The even told me that I would only have to report property OTHER THAN MONEY in the fair market value and we all know that silver and gold dollars minted since 1986 are money and legal tender.

USC 31, SUBCHAPTER I—MONETARY SYSTEM § 5101. Decimal system
United States money is expressed in dollars, dimes or tenths, cents or hundreths,[1] and mills or thousandths. A dime is a tenth of a dollar, a cent is a hundredth of a dollar, and a mill is a thousandth of a dollar.

See also § 5112.

You Pro-slavery members of the Marxist Religious Cult know me well. So does the IRS. So does the DoJ. So does Greg Damm. Why would I go to court when we all agree that I am not even suspected of committing a crime? Why would I become a cult member by being a taxpayer? Why would I have faith in your religious beliefs when law must be required and not faith to show me that I am wrong.

You Marx cultists are just angry because I don't worship at the alter of Communism and your established Civic religion that turns Americans into slaves.

I put your Marxist faith in FRNs to the test, given for such things, in the Bible...prove all things and hold fast to that which is good and unequal weights and measures are an abomination to the Lord, and they failed both tests. Obviously you agree because you cannot cite the law.

"No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.’ Everson v. Board of Ed. of Ewing, 330 U.S., at 15, 67 S.Ct., at 511-512." Lee v. Weisman 505 U.S. 577, 601 (1992)

“I certainly came to the conclusion many years ago that Marxism is a religion, contrary to Marx’s contention that he was being ‘scientific’. This was related to my own upbringing in a fundamentalist, Pentecostal church and I came to see a huge number of similarities and parallels between the two belief systems.” Dr. Wallace Mills of St Mary’s University

The Encyclopedia of the World’s Religions includes a chapter on Marxism, declaring that it meets all the essential requirements of a religion. See R. C. Zaehner, “Dialectical Materialism,” in R. C. Zaehner, ed., Encyclopedia of the World’s Religions (New York: Barnes and Noble Books, 1997)

The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot establish a religion of secularism in School Dist. of Abington Tp., Pa. v. Schempp 374 U.S. 203, *225, (1963)
"We agree of course that the State may not establish a ‘religion of secularism’ in the sense of affirmatively opposing or showing hostility to religion, thus ‘preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe.'"

So why don't you try going to court to prove you Marxists have not established a religion of secularism with Marx's 2nd, 5th and 10th planks firmly established. Because "Until you've tested it in court, you're wasting your time. And ours."

Sec. 3. Free Exercise of Religion Protected.
(a) In General: Government shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, except as provided in subsection (b).
(b) Exception: Government may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person--
(1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
(2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.
(c) Judicial Relief: A person whose religious exercise has been burdened in violation of this section may assert that violation as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding and obtain appropriate relief against a government. Standing to assert a claim or defense under this section shall be governed by the general rules of standing under article III of the Constitution.

So if I want to use Gold Coins minted since 1986 to calculate any possible taxable income can you tell me why that would not be the least restrictive on MY religious exercise?

And remember that I am not required to do a thing to change MY religious beliefs until the government demonstrates that application of the burden to the person is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest. So until the Government demonstrates it by perhaps showing me the law that says that gold and silver dollars are not REALLY dollars as declared to be by Congress, then I have no reason to believe that I have a "known duty" to do it any other way.

And you Marxist IRS agents know what that means...Right? I mean you have read Cheek...Right? And that, of course, this only ONE of many explanations I am looking for so that I can understand in clear and unequivocal language if I am actually a person required to file which is something the district director told me in writing, that I was not such a person.

So since I cannot find such a clear and unequivocal law I MUST presume that I am exempt:

Keeping in mind the well-settled rule that the citizen is exempt from taxation unless the same is imposed by clear and unequivocal language, and that where the construction of a tax law is doubtful, the doubt is to be resolved in favor of those upon whom the tax is sought to be laid.
Spreckels Sugar Refining Co. v. McClain, 192 U.S. 397, 24 S.Ct. 376, 418, U.S. 1904

So I came here to TRY to get that "demonstration" and as usual you Marxists CANNOT CITE THE LAW but only dance around it in worship of Marxist 2nd and 5th Commandments.

It is a fundamental tenet of due process that "[n]o one may be required at peril of life, liberty or property to speculate as to the meaning of penal statutes." Lanzetta v. New Jersey, 306 U.S. 451, 453 (1939). A criminal statute is therefore invalid if it "fails to give a person of ordinary intelligence fair notice that his contemplated conduct is forbidden." United States v. Batchelder, 442 U.S. 114, 123 (1979)

So how come you brilliant former prosecutors and IRS agents force me to keep speculating? All I want are clear and unequivocal laws and no one can give them to me after 30 years of searching. Or maybe I am not a "person of ordinary intelligence" which means I cannot commit a tax crime anyway. Right?

[LegalEagleMan]

So, when are you going to name the countries that only accepts gold and silver?

There is no country that I know of that requires only gold and silver for trade. Two merchants can use chickens as a medium of exchange if they wish.

I certainly have never said anything like you hinted.

[LegalEagleMan]

It's not really that complex Chemnor.

[Chemnor]

Really? I'm sure that there are is a huge number of international currency traders and speculators who would seriously disagree with you.

Read slowly.

The market set what you get for your "money". Congress sets the value of "money" with weights and measures for standardization. One oz. of gold will always be one oz. of gold.

Not if Congress changes what an ounce is. And they have that authority. They could change gold ounces from troy to standard and then an ounce would weigh less. They could change an ounce to what is now 2 ounces or 1/2 an ounce. They can change the size of a gallon or a foot to be 13 inches. They are the ones with the authority.

They do not have the authority to print paper money. They have the power to borrow money which is why they established the Federal Reserve so they could borrow "money" while in effect just printing it themselves. It was an end run around the Constitution and pure unadulterated treason.

It is pure Leninism at work. It is not some conspiracy. It is what they said they would do to us and they have.

In The Economic Consequences of the Peace (1919) by world-renowned economist John Maynard Keynes we read the reason why Lenin wanted the establishment of the very debauched currency that we have today in America.

“Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become 'profiteers,' who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery. Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."

Lenin and his buddies the Rothschilds succeeded.

We lost.

[Demosthenes]

So, when are you going to name the countries that only accepts gold and silver?

There is no country that I know of that requires only gold and silver for trade. Two merchants can use chickens as a medium of exchange if they wish.

I certainly have never said anything like you hinted.

You wrote:

You apparently have not traveled the world much. I assure most of the world considers gold money. In some parts of the world, gold and silver are the only things accepted.

Now tell us what parts of the world accept only gold and silver.

[Chemnor]

If you cannot give me the law then why even respond?

It sounds like you already have an answer, and just want to get into an argument with those who disagree with your legal theory. You're like a 9/11 Troofer who says "but I'm only asking questions!" but who refuse to listen to the answers, or an Aaron Russo who says "show me the law" but refuses to see the law when it held in front of his face.

Nope. I don't have an answer. I have been searching for years. I am told I don't need to know and that I am nuts and I have been given court rulings that talk about coins minted before 1986 but none after 1986. I have been given letters from the IRS district director that I am not required to file a 1040 but I cannot get a single elected official or a judge to show me the law that defines what a dollar is.

I have a letter from my Senator saying that the definition is "quite fluid" and one from my Representative saying he is not sure. My favorite is from Senator Harry Reid who says that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender. I wrote back and said: "So are pennies. But I asked what a dollar was." Naturally he never responded.

I have one from the State Secretary of State saying a "dollar is a dollar." I have one from the State Treasurer saying she cannot tell me. I have one from the legal counsel for the Legislature saying that they can't tell me. I have one from the U.S. Treasury saying that Federal Reserve notes are not dollars.

So are you telling me not to ask? What kind of slave does not demand answers from his own government? I am looking for the Congressionally created definition to the U.S. monetary measurement known as a "dollar." There was one in 1792. The Founders knew how to define what a dollar was. So I am just looking for what the definition is today. One of Websters dictionaries said it USED to be defined as 371.25 grains of silver but there isn't a definition today.

If I don't know what a dollar is then how can I calculate my income under penalties of perjury?

26 USC § 7206. Fraud and false statements
Any person who—
(1) Declaration under penalties of perjury
Willfully makes and subscribes any return, statement, or other document, which contains or is verified by a written declaration that it is made under the penalties of perjury, and which he does not believe to be true and correct as to every material matter; shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 3 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.

Are you trying to tell me that the legal definition of what a dollar is is not a material matter?

I know a Federal Reserve Note is NOT a dollar. My Senator and the US Department of Treasury counsel informed me of that. So I know what a dollar is NOT but I do not know what it is unless this is correct and finial.

TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(d)
(1) United States coins shall have the inscription “In God We Trust”. The obverse side of each coin shall have the inscription “Liberty”. The reverse side of each coin shall have the inscriptions “United States of America” and “E Pluribus Unum” and a designation of the value of the coin.

And if it is then I should be able to freely and without penalty choose which of the many "dollars" is most beneficial to me and also allows me to set a standard that is not an unequal measure so that I do not violate my religious beliefs.

[LegalEagleMan]

Not if Congress changes what an ounce is. And they have that authority. They could change gold ounces from troy to standard and then an ounce would weigh less. They could change an ounce to what is now 2 ounces or 1/2 an ounce. They can change the size of a gallon or a foot to be 13 inches. They are the ones with the authority.

Congress is free to change the standards of weights and measures in reference to "money" anytime they want. Who said they couldn't?

They do not have the authority to print paper money. They have the power to borrow money which is why they established the Federal Reserve so they could borrow "money" while in effect just printing it themselves. It was an end run around the Constitution and pure unadulterated treason.

You are getting into some myth stuff now. All "credit" is creating is something from thin air. Patriot nut job myth stuff. If you can't "credit" from thin air I would like to know where it is all stored.

It is pure Leninism at work.
We lost.

It has nothing to do with Leninism, humans have been using credit since civilization has started. Way before Lenin's great great great great great grandfather was even a sperm and an egg.

Any financial system built on the premise of usury with interest attached will collapse do to the in ability to expand. Go do a search on exponential growth on youtube. Humans keep doing the same stupid things in regards to that, but it's fun watching them try. Either way, I am way off topic.

[LegalEagleMan]

Now tell us what parts of the world accept only gold and silver.

Individuals can accept or not whatever they choose, I know of no country that requires gold and silver for a medium of exchange and how could they? There are plenty of individuals who will only use gold and silver or one of the other. Some will only trade their actually products.

In Zimbabwe their credit system collapsed completely, some people used other nations paper and coin currencies, many people would only take gold for their products. Still do.

There is this thing called Google, it does searches. Put in "gold for bread" and "Zimbabwe" in there... it will come back with all types of videos if you are interested. [b]However, we both know you are not really interested don't we?[/b] I mean you don't even like the idea that you don't know something. Well, there might be someone that knows everything, I haven't met that person yet.

Seems to be way off topic but hey it's your show. If you are truly interested in discussing with an open mind and with no agenda I am a willing participant, you seem to have an agenda which is causing friction.

I had an old Aunt back in the day, didn't matter what you did for her, it just wasn't going to be for her liking. You could give her a piece of fresh strawberry cake on a hot summer day and she would have an issue with it.