941 REFUND on LH

[iplawyer]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulton is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

[John J. Bulten]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulten is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

I've missed you!

Did you enjoy your champagne when Pete was enjoined from filing frivolous returns? As if he files frivolous returns!

I'd appreciate your insight sometime into subornation of perjury and witness tampering.

Anyway, you noticed the total was around $380,000 for one quarter of payments? And why do you think Anonymous has "employees"? If he did, he should not have included them in the refund.

[Demosthenes]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulton is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

The jpgs have been passed along and there is plenty of identifying info for the Service to do what it is they do thoroughly, if slowly.

[gezco]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulton is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

They ought to just wait a while, leave the deposits applied to the old liabilities and then hit him with new penalties on the 2007 941’s. Then, pursue collection efforts as aggressively as possible, forcing him to shut down the business. I’m thinking this is going to get real ugly really fast for this guy.

[grammarian44]

John, are you willing to go on record right now and say that the IRS will never successfully recover any of the refunded monies in further proceedings of any kind?

[Doktor Avalanche]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulton is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

Place your bets, everyone. The question before the panel is this:

How long do you think it will take before PH is thrown under the prison and CtC is forever banned from being published?

[wserra]

How long do you think it will take before PH is thrown under the prison

I would only bet against "tomorrow" because of the speed at which government operates.

and CtC is forever banned from being published?

That's not gonna happen, nor should it. Individuals who profit from it may well be enjoined from selling it, though.

[gezco]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulten is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

I've missed you!

Did you enjoy your champagne when Pete was enjoined from filing frivolous returns? As if he files frivolous returns!

I'd appreciate your insight sometime into subornation of perjury and witness tampering.

Anyway, you noticed the total was around $380,000 for one quarter of payments? And why do you think Anonymous has "employees"? If he did, he should not have included them in the refund.

I think he’s talking about the CP138 with the $199,461 refund. It’s a 941. The entity that filed it should have employees, otherwise it wouldn’t be a 941. If you notice, none of it was actually sent to the company. It was all applied to past liabilities. I’m not sure where you’re getting $380,000.

[Joey Smith]

I've missed you!

Did you enjoy your champagne when Pete was enjoined from filing frivolous returns? As if he files frivolous returns!

I'd appreciate your insight sometime into subornation of perjury and witness tampering.

Anyway, you noticed the total was around $380,000 for one quarter of payments? And why do you think Anonymous has "employees"? If he did, he should not have included them in the refund.

What the CtCers are doing is no different than somebody who presents a bogus check to the bank, gets the money, and then thinks that because they got the money they must have had money in the bank after all.

And the result will be the same: Prison.

I'm tired of watching the Service flounder around on this one. Let the indictments against Pete and all of his supporters fly. That is the only way this scam will be stopped, when the perps are spending their time cleaning up the grounds of the federal workcamp.

[Nikki]

Unfortunately, it isn't up to the IRS to conduct a criminal prosecution. That decision is made by DoJ.

[webhick]

The guy must have filled out his Q1 941 with a massive (phony?) overpayment and no taxable wages.

In my experience cleaning up another bookkeeper's payroll cluck-ups, it seems that the IRS doesn't actually check to see if you really made your 941 payments until about 4-5 months *after* the form is filed.

That notice was dated middle of May, which is too soon for the IRS to have actually checked on those payments.

[Demosthenes]

Unfortunately, it isn't up to the IRS to conduct a criminal prosecution. That decision is made by DoJ.

And the DOJ won't even know they're supposed to prosecute until the IRS investigates and packages the case.

[Joey Smith]

Unfortunately, it isn't up to the IRS to conduct a criminal prosecution. That decision is made by DoJ.

My complaint with the Service has been that they took way too long to identify this as a scam despite the fact that Pete was posting "success" checks on his website, and apparently are still issuing refund checks.

[LPC]

My complaint with the Service has been that they took way too long to identify this as a scam despite the fact that Pete was posting "success" checks on his website, and apparently are still issuing refund checks.

It's the last part that is incomprehensible to me, because a CtC return should be VERY easy to flag. How many legitimate returns are going to include a Form 4852 that reports income tax withheld but no wages paid, and a refund for the full amount of the withholding?

Yes, it can happen, and I'm sure it does, but I can't believe that it is so common that it would be a big deal to flag those returns and delay the refund until someone has looked at them.

[David Merrill]

I've seen it all. Some Sap has somehow gotten his 941 taxes for the last quarter refunded - well applied against prior obligations anyway. Can anyone do something about this? Those poor employees are going to be screwed. Mr. Bulton is positively jubilant about it all.

http://www.losthorizons.com/tax/morevictories17.htm

The jpgs have been passed along and there is plenty of identifying info for the Service to do what it is they do thoroughly, if slowly.

http://www.deathandtaxes.com/bio.htm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 7rank.html

[.]

can't believe that it is so common that it would be a big deal

Close enough for government work.

[webhick]

http://www.deathandtaxes.com/bio.htm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 7rank.html

Please explain what you're hinting at. I'm not sure I follow.

[The Observer]

http://www.deathandtaxes.com/bio.htm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 7rank.html

Please explain what you're hinting at. I'm not sure I follow.

I think it has something to do with J.J. McNab's insidious attempt to invest in and corner the world debt market.

[Quixote]

Those poor employees are going to be screwed.

More than likely, but not by the bogus 941 the employer filed. An employee's withholding credit is the amount withheld, not the amount paid to the IRS. But chances are good that the employer will not file W-2s. If the employees got check stubs showing the amount withheld, they can use those to complete a Form 4852. Unfortunately, I don't think that will correct Social Security's records.

In my experience cleaning up another bookkeeper's payroll cluck-ups, it seems that the IRS doesn't actually check to see if you really made your 941 payments until about 4-5 months *after* the form is filed.

That notice was dated middle of May, which is too soon for the IRS to have actually checked on those payments.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "checked on those payments". When the returns were processed, the IRS computer compared the tax on the return with the deposits actually posted to the account, not the deposits claimed on the return. Most 941s take 4-5 months to be processed. The ones in question were processed rather rapidly, possibly because 941s showing a refund are so rare.

I wonder why the employer, or rather employers, as there seem to be 4 of them, deposited all those taxes they thought they didn't owe.

[webhick]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "checked on those payments". When the returns were processed, the IRS computer compared the tax on the return with the deposits actually posted to the account, not the deposits claimed on the return. Most 941s take 4-5 months to be processed. The ones in question were processed rather rapidly, possibly because 941s showing a refund are so rare.

Previous bookkeeper stupidly claimed that they not only made all their 941 payments but accidentally included their FUTA payments as well. IRS issued a letter about two months later saying they applied their overpayment to past returns and then three months after that said that they made a correction to the tax return to account for the payments not actually made.