Tripple Warning from Bellringer

[Deep Knight]

The President will address the nation's schoolchildren on studying hard and staying in school. Run for the hills!

PARENTS DUB SEPT. 8 'KEEP YOUR KIDS AT HOME DAY'
Chelsea Schilling

Widespread movement to opt-out of Obama's televised speech to children

Sept. 3, 2009

Objections to president's speech

Several bloggers discussed their thoughts on the president's address to schoolchildren on the Free Republic website. The following are some comments about the upcoming speech:

I'm so mad right now, I think my head will explode.
You don't mess with people's kids! There's a line, and he'd better no cross it or he will cause a revolution in this country.
This idea reeks of Bill Ayers.
He is treading on very dangerous ground.
Thank God we live in Alaska. That's 8 a.m. up here, and most of the students are still eating breakfast. I'll read the transcript later in case I want to experience nausea.
Why does this have to be a live broadcast? Why must all schools halt at the appointed time to listen to our dear leader? It doesn't accommodate children or the families very well.
Isn't it time for parents to organize a national campaign to pull their kids out of school on that day?
Have you called your local school today to express your opinion about the Obama propaganda video and lesson plan? If not, now is a good time. Even if you do not have children in school, you pay taxes to support it and you have to live with the results of its teachings, so you have a stake in the outcome.
I would keep my kid out for the whole day instead of just a couple of hours – the school districts receive an amount per student based on their daily attendance, so the thing to do is to hit them in the pocketbook, where it hurts.
I will be keeping both of my children out the entire day. Our school district has said they will be airing the speech and also have other activities planned around it. Knowing what some of these school boards and administrators are like, those activities could be more damaging than an Obama speech.
I assume brownshirts will be taking the names of those who opt out.
Several people referred to Sept. 8 as "National Keep Your Kids at Home Day."

The Nationwide Tea Party Coalition announced its "Hall Pass on That" website, with several suggested actions for parents who do not approve of their children participating in the presentation. The coalition offers the following suggestions:

Contact the child's school to find out whether it is participating in the program.
If your child's school is participating, ask what alternatives there are for the children of families who wish for their students to learn about the establishment of the country respective to the Founding Fathers' intentions. Discussions may focus on the Constitution, the definition and actions of a republic and the responsibility of elected leaders to their constituents.
Ask if the school can excuse your child from the presentation and instead receive a DVD of the address and copy of the activity directives to be evaluated by parents at a later date.
Request a meeting with the school board, superintendent and principal to inquire as to why parents were excluded from the decision-making process of this event.
Pre- and post-speech lesson plans

The Education Department has been encouraging teachers to create lesson plans around the speech, using materials provided on the department website.

As WND reported, worksheets provided by the U.S. Department of Education encouraged teachers to ask pre-K through 6th-grade students the following questions:

What is the president trying to tell me to do?
What is the president asking me to do?
What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?
Students may be asked to write down "key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful, make posters of their goals, create a "supportive community" by sharing those goals with one another.

Junior-high and high-school students may be asked to brainstorm answers to the following questions before the speech:

Why does President Obama want to speak with us today?
How will he inspire us?
How will he challenge us?
What might he say?
They are encouraged to take notes while Obama speaks about personal responsibility, goals or persistence. As part of a "guided discussion," they may talk about what Obama has inspired or challenged them to do.

Fox News reported that the White House is now "rethinking" its course recommendations for students and rewriting its suggestions for student assignments on how to "help the president."

Among the activities suggested for pre-K to 6th grade students were to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president" and discuss what "the president wants us to do."

According to the report, the suggestion about writing letters has been changed to: "Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short-term and long-term education goals. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals."

Lessons prompt concerns about 'illegal activity'

The Texas Justice Foundation warned the proposed '"classroom activities'" for teachers as to how they should handle the president's Sept. 8th speech to American schoolchildren, reveal that illegal activity may occur, if the recommendations are followed."

"The questions, comments, evaluations and analysis that occurs before, during, and after the president's speech will clearly 'reveal information concerning political affiliations' and probably, 'critical appraisals of other individuals with whom the child(ren) has/have close family relationships' (such as parents)," the foundation said in a press release. "This is perhaps one of the greatest invasions of personal privacy and injecting political affiliation into the public school system in the history of the United States."

The group said the speech may violate protections provided in the Pupil Rights Amendment.

"It also violates 34 Code of Federal Regulations Section 98.4[c] [1] and [2] that defines psychological testing as:
(1) Psychiatric or psychological examination or test means a method of obtaining information, including a group activity, that is not directly related to academic instruction and that is designed to elicit information about attitudes, habits, traits, opinions, beliefs or feelings; (emphasis added)

(2) Psychiatric or psychological treatment means an activity involving the planned, systematic use of methods or techniques that are not directly related to academic instruction and that is designed to affect behavioral, emotional, or attitudinal characteristics of an individual or group. (emphasis added)

Texas Justice Foundation warned that the group activities suggested by the Department of Education "are not directly related to academic instruction and that are designed to elicit information about attitudes, habits, traits, opinions, beliefs, or feelings."

"At this time of intense controversy over the president's far-reaching plans to transform America, it is incredible that he would consider using children to advance his political agenda," Justice Foundation President Allan Parker said. "It violates the constitutional right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children, federal law and is perhaps the greatest intrusion of a president into the education process in the history of the United States. In the opinion of the Texas Justice Foundation lawyers, it is both morally and legally wrong."

'Public relations tactic gone too far'

Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for Educational Freedom, objected to the Obama administration message to schoolchildren in a Cato Institute article titled, "Hey Obama, leave those kids alone."

"It's one thing for a president to encourage all kids to work hard and stay in school – that's a reasonable use of the bully pulpit," McCluskey wrote. "It's another thing entirely, however, to have the U.S. Department of Education send detailed instructions to public schools nationwide on how to glorify the president and the presidency, and push them to drive social change. Frighteningly, this is what President Obama has done."

McCluskey objected to Department of Education-suggested classroom activities for pre-K-6 students encouraging children to make posters setting out "community and country" goals.

"Perhaps even more frightening is the lesson schools are pushed to teach that it is important to listen to 'the president and other elected officials,'" he wrote. "Possibly most distressing of all, though, is guidance that appears explicitly designed to glorify both the presidency and President Obama himself …"

He said the White House is trying to use its power over education to "indoctrinate children, something completely antithetical to a free society."

Missouri Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder condemned Obama's speech as a "public relations tactic" that has gone too far.

"I believe that if parents choose to keep their children at home during this presentation, they should be able to do so without any consequences being imposed upon their children," Kinder said. "And if local school districts across Missouri choose not to make this speech mandatory for students, they should not face any penalties for the state or federal government."

Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party, said in a statement that he believes Obama's speech may be a platform "to spread" his "socialist ideology."

"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology. The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the president justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other president, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power."

He continued, "While I support educating our children to respect both the office of the American president and the value of community service, I do not support using our children as tools to spread liberal propaganda. The address scheduled for Sept. 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the president's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our president's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

[Deep Knight]

Bellringer and Chelsea Schilling are back with post #2.

PARENTS' OUTRAGE PREVIEW OF OBAMA TV SEPT. 8 ? !! (with video)
Chelsea Schilling

Televised school messages that 'glorify' president called indoctrination

Sept. 2, 2009


Parents are outraged after a Utah elementary school showed a video to schoolchildren about pledging to "to be of service to Barack Obama," "to never give anyone the finger when I'm driving again," "to sell my obnoxious car and buy a hybrid" and to advance stem-cell research.

The video, titled "I Pledge" and produced by Demi Moore, features more than 50 Hollywood celebrities who offer their support for President Obama's policies. The film was played for Obama during his inaugural celebration.

But school administrators at Eagle Bay Elementary School in Farmington, Utah, showed the video to young students at an Aug 28 school assembly, sparking outrage from parents and conservative groups who called the film "radical, leftist propaganda," the Salt Lake Tribune reports.

The video can be seen below:

[No it can't, but you can search for it if you wish]

"I Pledge" opens with a popular depiction of Obama. The president states, "Let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other."

The following are some of the more controversial pledges:

I pledge allegiance to the funk of the united funk of funkadelica.
I pledge to never give anyone the finger when I'm driving again
I pledge to advance stem-cell research
To reduce my use of plastic … use less bottled water … plant 500 trees this year … to be more green … to no longer use plastic bags at the grocery store
For the environment, I plan to flush only after deuce, never a single
I pledge to sell my obnoxious car and buy a hybrid
I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama
The video asks viewers to visit Serve.gov and sign up for a community service project.

Jennifer Cieslewicz has a daughter who is in first-grade at Eagle Bay Elementary.

"Showing the video in a public school is completely inappropriate," Cieslewicz told the Salt Lake Tribune. "I don't believe a video such as this that promotes certain values should be shown to elementary students, especially without parents being aware. "

Following negative reactions from parents, school principal Ofelia Wade has apologized for showing the video.

Chris Williams, Davis School District spokesman, told the Tribune that Wade and school PTA leaders chose to play the video during its assembly about the school theme this year – service. He said Wade hadn't viewed the film before it was played for the children.

"It got to a point where she turned to her assistant and said, 'Oops, I wish I would have seen this before. I don't think I would have shown it,' " Williams said. "She acknowledges she was wrong and apologizes for it and says she's sorry."

According to the report, the principal plans to send letters to parents about the film on Wednesday.

Gayle Ruzicka, president of Utah Eagle Forum, told the newspaper the video was blatantly political.

"It's very inappropriate to show a radical, leftist propaganda piece that political to children," Ruzicka said. "If parents want their children to learn about those things and do them in the home, wonderful, fine, but it's not the place of the school to show a one-sided propaganda piece to children without parents knowing about it."

Ruzicka said she is concerned that the film's pledges may confuse elementary-school children whose parents use plastic bags at grocery stores or who want their children to flush the toilet every time they use the restroom.

She said she also objects to the pledge "to be of service to Barack Obama" because he has been elected to serve Americans, not so they will serve him.

News of the public school's decision to show the video comes after WND reported that President Obama plans to give a national address to the nation's school children on Sept. 8. School officials have been asked to take a break from normal educational activities to allow students to view a speech from the president and participate in recommended brainstorming exercises following the broadcast.

According to a letter from U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, "The president will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. …

"He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens."

The speech is scheduled to broadcast live at 12 p.m. EST on C-SPAN and at whitehouse.gov.

"United Funk of Funkadelica?" Gotta be George Clinton or another P-Funk alumnus.

[Deep Knight]

#3, which looks like it was cut 'n pasted from #1 & #2.

PARENTS DUB SEPT. 8 'KEEP YOUR KIDS AT HOME DAY'
Chelsea Schilling

Widespread movement to opt-out of Obama's televised speech to children

Sept. 3, 2009

Objections to president's speech

Several bloggers discussed their thoughts on the president's address to schoolchildren on the Free Republic website. The following are some comments about the upcoming speech:

I'm so mad right now, I think my head will explode.
You don't mess with people's kids! There's a line, and he'd better no cross it or he will cause a revolution in this country.
This idea reeks of Bill Ayers.
He is treading on very dangerous ground.
Thank God we live in Alaska. That's 8 a.m. up here, and most of the students are still eating breakfast. I'll read the transcript later in case I want to experience nausea.
Why does this have to be a live broadcast? Why must all schools halt at the appointed time to listen to our dear leader? It doesn't accommodate children or the families very well.
Isn't it time for parents to organize a national campaign to pull their kids out of school on that day?
Have you called your local school today to express your opinion about the Obama propaganda video and lesson plan? If not, now is a good time. Even if you do not have children in school, you pay taxes to support it and you have to live with the results of its teachings, so you have a stake in the outcome.
I would keep my kid out for the whole day instead of just a couple of hours – the school districts receive an amount per student based on their daily attendance, so the thing to do is to hit them in the pocketbook, where it hurts.
I will be keeping both of my children out the entire day. Our school district has said they will be airing the speech and also have other activities planned around it. Knowing what some of these school boards and administrators are like, those activities could be more damaging than an Obama speech.
I assume brownshirts will be taking the names of those who opt out.
Several people referred to Sept. 8 as "National Keep Your Kids at Home Day."

The Nationwide Tea Party Coalition announced its "Hall Pass on That" website, with several suggested actions for parents who do not approve of their children participating in the presentation. The coalition offers the following suggestions:

Contact the child's school to find out whether it is participating in the program.
If your child's school is participating, ask what alternatives there are for the children of families who wish for their students to learn about the establishment of the country respective to the Founding Fathers' intentions. Discussions may focus on the Constitution, the definition and actions of a republic and the responsibility of elected leaders to their constituents.
Ask if the school can excuse your child from the presentation and instead receive a DVD of the address and copy of the activity directives to be evaluated by parents at a later date.
Request a meeting with the school board, superintendent and principal to inquire as to why parents were excluded from the decision-making process of this event.
Pre- and post-speech lesson plans

The Education Department has been encouraging teachers to create lesson plans around the speech, using materials provided on the department website.

As WND reported, worksheets provided by the U.S. Department of Education encouraged teachers to ask pre-K through 6th-grade students the following questions:

What is the president trying to tell me to do?
What is the president asking me to do?
What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?
Students may be asked to write down "key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful, make posters of their goals, create a "supportive community" by sharing those goals with one another.

Junior-high and high-school students may be asked to brainstorm answers to the following questions before the speech:

Why does President Obama want to speak with us today?
How will he inspire us?
How will he challenge us?
What might he say?
They are encouraged to take notes while Obama speaks about personal responsibility, goals or persistence. As part of a "guided discussion," they may talk about what Obama has inspired or challenged them to do.

Fox News reported that the White House is now "rethinking" its course recommendations for students and rewriting its suggestions for student assignments on how to "help the president."

Among the activities suggested for pre-K to 6th grade students were to "write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president" and discuss what "the president wants us to do."

According to the report, the suggestion about writing letters has been changed to: "Write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short-term and long-term education goals. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals."

Lessons prompt concerns about 'illegal activity'

The Texas Justice Foundation warned the proposed '"classroom activities'" for teachers as to how they should handle the president's Sept. 8th speech to American schoolchildren, reveal that illegal activity may occur, if the recommendations are followed."

"The questions, comments, evaluations and analysis that occurs before, during, and after the president's speech will clearly 'reveal information concerning political affiliations' and probably, 'critical appraisals of other individuals with whom the child(ren) has/have close family relationships' (such as parents)," the foundation said in a press release. "This is perhaps one of the greatest invasions of personal privacy and injecting political affiliation into the public school system in the history of the United States."

The group said the speech may violate protections provided in the Pupil Rights Amendment.

"It also violates 34 Code of Federal Regulations Section 98.4[c] [1] and [2] that defines psychological testing as:
(1) Psychiatric or psychological examination or test means a method of obtaining information, including a group activity, that is not directly related to academic instruction and that is designed to elicit information about attitudes, habits, traits, opinions, beliefs or feelings; (emphasis added)

(2) Psychiatric or psychological treatment means an activity involving the planned, systematic use of methods or techniques that are not directly related to academic instruction and that is designed to affect behavioral, emotional, or attitudinal characteristics of an individual or group. (emphasis added)

Texas Justice Foundation warned that the group activities suggested by the Department of Education "are not directly related to academic instruction and that are designed to elicit information about attitudes, habits, traits, opinions, beliefs, or feelings."

"At this time of intense controversy over the president's far-reaching plans to transform America, it is incredible that he would consider using children to advance his political agenda," Justice Foundation President Allan Parker said. "It violates the constitutional right of parents to direct the upbringing and education of their children, federal law and is perhaps the greatest intrusion of a president into the education process in the history of the United States. In the opinion of the Texas Justice Foundation lawyers, it is both morally and legally wrong."

'Public relations tactic gone too far'

Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for Educational Freedom, objected to the Obama administration message to schoolchildren in a Cato Institute article titled, "Hey Obama, leave those kids alone."

"It's one thing for a president to encourage all kids to work hard and stay in school – that's a reasonable use of the bully pulpit," McCluskey wrote. "It's another thing entirely, however, to have the U.S. Department of Education send detailed instructions to public schools nationwide on how to glorify the president and the presidency, and push them to drive social change. Frighteningly, this is what President Obama has done."

McCluskey objected to Department of Education-suggested classroom activities for pre-K-6 students encouraging children to make posters setting out "community and country" goals.

"Perhaps even more frightening is the lesson schools are pushed to teach that it is important to listen to 'the president and other elected officials,'" he wrote. "Possibly most distressing of all, though, is guidance that appears explicitly designed to glorify both the presidency and President Obama himself …"

He said the White House is trying to use its power over education to "indoctrinate children, something completely antithetical to a free society."

Missouri Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder condemned Obama's speech as a "public relations tactic" that has gone too far.

"I believe that if parents choose to keep their children at home during this presentation, they should be able to do so without any consequences being imposed upon their children," Kinder said. "And if local school districts across Missouri choose not to make this speech mandatory for students, they should not face any penalties for the state or federal government."

Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party, said in a statement that he believes Obama's speech may be a platform "to spread" his "socialist ideology."

"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology. The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the president justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other president, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power."

He continued, "While I support educating our children to respect both the office of the American president and the value of community service, I do not support using our children as tools to spread liberal propaganda. The address scheduled for Sept. 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the president's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our president's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

[Pottapaug1938]

Here is an excellent article from http://www.cnn.com regarding the tendency to use labels like "SOCIALISM!!!!!!!" (or "FASCISM!!!!!!!", if you prefer) to try to game the political discourse in the US:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/03/ ... newssearch

I've long had the feeling that too many Americans (on both sides of the political spectrum) no longer care to make their own thoughtful, insightful analysis of political issues, and prefer instead to make a superficial analysis -- just enough to be able to fit the issue into a mental pigeonhole, whether or not it actually belongs there.

[fortinbras]

As long as Obama doesn't make them sit through his reading of My Pet Goat, I am not worried.

[Deep Knight]

'HELLO, CENTRAL!' THOSE, WHO KEEP THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL ON SEPTEMBER 8, 2009 HAVE A SCREW LOOSE! (Updated Sept. 7, 2009)
Patrick H. Bellringer

----- Original Message -----
From: S
To: bellringer@fourwinds10.com
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Keep your kids out of school Sept 8th

Hi Patrick,

When I came across this posting my jaw dropped. Is this what our country has come to? Silly is to mild a description. Other presidents have addressed our children in the past, but it seems that anything Obama does these days is taboo. Just imagine. A president wanting to address school age children telling them that working hard and getting a good education is something that the wing nuts dare not let their children hear.

Today in order to remain competitive in a global economy we all must make sure that our children are guided so as to get the best education they can. I doubt many realize that the drop out rate for high school seniors is over 30%. Many of these kids grow up to become tomorrows gang members, drug dealers or worse. In time they become an even greater burden to society with higher medical costs as well as a drag on many social programs such as food stamps and unemployment insurance.

Not getting a proper education does our great country harm, and those that consider going as far as to keep their children out of school over this should have their heads examined.

Obama may not be the president that many had hoped for, but when it comes to addressing our youth and extolling the virtues of getting a good education so as to prosper in their future and be able to compete in a global economy seems wrong, someone has a screw lose. Those thinking otherwise are making a grave mistake and doing their own children incredible harm.

Regards,

S

(Response)
FROM: Patrick H. Bellringer
TO: S
DATE: September 7, 2009
SUBJECT: Reply

Dear S:

I have revised my letter to you, not realizing the first one had already been sent.

You are quite wrong in your thinking. Where have you been since the Obama Zionist era began? For months we have been posting on the Internet much of the corruption and the deliberate destruction of our freedoms by the Obama Administration.

It is you that has a "screw loose" and much more. No U.S. President has ever given a directed speech just to the children in our government (public) schools, and can you believe it, with teacher lesson plans for both preparation for the speech and follow up plans after the speech.

In so many ways Obama is another Hitler dealing with the same mind-controlled and passive public. Do you not know of the Hitler Youth Brigades, how they were started and what they accomplished? Parents were imprisoned because the children "narked" on them to Hitler's Goon Squads.

Will you innocently march to the beat of the Nazi military step right into the already constructed U.S. containment camps? Will you step up and take your toxic swine flu shot right on schedule, as a good citizen? Will you send your children to school to be mind-controlled and taught lies by a most evil self-proclaimed "leader of the whole world?"

It is not about "working hard and getting a good education". It is not about "dropping out of school, becoming gang members and drug dealers or worse". You are so far out in left field you will never catch the ball!

May you find Truth before it is too late to save yourself and your children.

In Love and Light,
Patrick H. Bellringer
bellringer@fourwinds10.com
http://www.fourwinds10.com

2a. (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: S
To: Bellringer
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Keep your kids out of school Sept 8th

Dear Patrick....You have been brain washed with all of Casper vitriol, but in the not too distant future, your eyes and mind will be opened. Best of luck to you on your very long journey of understanding

(Response)

FROM: Patrick H. Bellringer
TO: S
DATE: September 7, 2009
SUBJECT: Reply

Dear S:

How does Casper fit into this discussion? Are you not willing to accept your responsibility for Truth and deal with it? It is a very common trick to project one's frustration, or ignorance for that matter, on to another, rather then dealing with it. It has always been so, if one cannot accept the message of Truth, to trash and try to discredit the messenger to some how make the message less valuable.

There is none so blind as she, who will not see! I truly pity you for your lack of enlightenment. It is not Casper, who spews out vitriol! Only the negative Darkside ones do that! May you find your way---out of the Darkness.

In Love and Light,
Patrick H. Bellringer

2b (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: S
To: Bellringer
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Keep your kids out of school Sept 8th

Again and again Patirck you show your true ignorance. Presidents Carter, Nixon, Kennedy and Reagan gave speeches to school children in the past. Perhaps you'll change your tune when you actually hear it rather than running around with your hair on fire screaming the sky is falling. If you have children, I can only imagine how maladjusted they are. Sites like yours only promote fear and misunderstanding as most of what your post on your site is so far out on the fringe that you wouldn't know reality if it hit you in the face.

When your long awaited package finally does arrive, perhaps you might actually do something beneficial for society rather than the garbage you now spew to those unfortunate enough o stumble upon your site. Have a great life with the rest of your pathetic tin foil following. Being that paranoid to think that the boogy man is hiding around every corner is no way to live ones life.

2c (Reply
----- Original Message -----
From: S
To: bellringer@fourwinds10.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Presidentail speeches

Just for shits and giggles Patrick here is a link to one of the speeches that President Reagan made to all public school children. But when the big bad black man speaks, the world is coming to an end. Talk about indoctrination as well as your being two faced. it might be time to stick your phoney love and light up your ass and take a closer look at reality.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909030020
Conservative media take note: Reagan preached tax cut gospel to America’s students

September 03, 2009 1:09 pm ET by Matt Gertz

Putting aside possible ulterior motives, the conservative freak-out over President Obama’s planned speech to students urging them to stay in school and work hard is due to fears that Obama will use his platform as an opportunity to push his agenda on unsuspecting students. Ironically, that’s exactly what President Reagan did two decades ago.

On November 14, 1988, Reagan addressed and took questions from students from four area middle schools in the Old Executive Office Building. According to press secretary Marlin Fitzwater, the speech was broadcast live and rebroadcast by C-Span, and Instructional Television Network fed the program “t o schools nationwide on three different days.” Much of Reagan’s speech that day covered the American “vision of self-government” and the need “to keep faith with the unfinished vision of the greatness and wonder of America” but in the middle of the speech, the president went off on a tangent about the importance of low taxes:

3. (Reply)
----- Original Message ----
-From: S
To: Bellringer
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Keep your kids out of school Sept 8th

Get a life Patrick. When confronted with the truth that other presidents have done the same thing in the past you look the other way. It's rather sad that a gown man such as yourself continues to feed your self contrived fears that the boogy man hides around every corner. Eyebrows might be raised if this were Obama's or any other presidents 20th talk in a series, but it is not. Your pulling the Hitler card just shows how little you understand about history and the fears of not only the past but your apparent fears of the future and we all have them.

No doubt that the less educated among your flock will continue to drink your swill and as you control the message on your board it wouldn't surprise me if there were hundreds who felt that you are providing a greater disservice to readers than any benefit.

As far as Casper is concerned he is a right wing conservative and obviously has problems with a Democrat in office. Funny how he rarely mentioned the Republicans when they were in office holding progress up. The fact Patrick, is that it never made any difference who was in office as far as either the message or the programs were concerned as both parties have long been bought and paid for by powerful corporations who ply their millions in donations to those who will do their bidding. It's the same old good cop bad cop theory and these people can play it to the hilt while answering only to their masters.

When tomorrow comes and the long awaited speech is given to school children who only have the attention span of a nano second, comes and goes, you and other deluded types can then go to a mirror and take a good look at yourselves. What you will see is a man who cowers in fear of the unknown who is willing to propagate his own fear through his very controlled web site while looking for the conviction of others that listen to his tired old song.

You might be surprised that most valued blogs have the ability for readers to respond without the message being filtered. In the case of Four Winds, if you can't control the message, no one can. For one who purports to be the freedom loving god fearing man you are, that would be a breath of fresh air, but we know that won't happen in this lifetime.

4. (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: Te
To: bellringer@fourwinds10.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: S
Mr. Bellringer

I think S does not understand just how rediculous her opinions are on the Obama school speech. If Mr. Obama were really concerned about the kids getting a good education then he would have to put a good education system out there that a child could get a good education at.

Does S understand that the U.S. education has dropped from number 1 to number 47th in the world in educating its children? Does S understand that a child who does get a high school education is not qualified for any type of job? Does S understand that many children who get a high school diploma can barely read and write and could not balance their check book? Does S understand that a a high school diploma in Russia is equal to a University education and even more in the U.S.? Does S understand that even having a University diploma in the U.S. will not enable that child to compete with most people in the world for jobs? Does S understand that the U.S. government cares so much for the education of the kids that they refuse to make education affordable? No loans, no nothing to help out these students, but they allow the Universities to sell their sub-par education at any price they choose.

Lets face the truth, whatever Obama has in mind for giving that lecture to the kids it has nothing to do with getting them a better education. It has been the policy of the U.S. government for a long time to "dumb" down the peasant children of the U.S., and they have done a great job at it. There is no reason to suspect that they now have decided to change course and offer a quality education that is only reserved for a select few.

S needs to open her eyes and understand that it is the quality of the education that is worth the effort and not just getting a worthless diploma.

#5 (Reply)

----- Original Message -----
From: LU
To: <bellringer@fourwinds10.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: Siterun Contact Request from Fourwinds10

Message:

'HELLO, CENTRAL!' THOSE, WHO KEEP THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL ON SEPTEMBER 8, 2009 HAVE A SCREW LOOSE!

Dear Patrick,

If I want my child indoctrinated by any president I will sit he or she down in front of the tv and make them listen to presidential speeches. I do not want the school doing this for me.

My question is, will this be shown in high schools or just in middle schools? If the speech contains a push for a national government youth organization I am against it and want no part of it for my child. Or any brainwashing.

We made a lot of mistakes before and during Nixon\'s time......that doesn\'t mean we have to repeat it.

Time to use our own mental capacities and protect those of our children\'s.

Best Regards

(Response)

FROM: Patrick H. Bellringer
TO: LU
DATE: Sept. 7, 2009
SUBJECT: Reply

Dear LU:

Obama is to speak to all the nation's school children, meaning K-12. You mentioned brainwashing. Below is the supposed text of Obama's speech for September 8. It is not his originally intended speech. Due to all the flack he has been receiving from parents, he apparently changed it. He is still pushing "not quitting on your country" and what you can do for your country, but what are the subliminal messages, and what will reverse speech reveal of Obama's real intent in his speech to our children? Brainwashing and mind-control are in common use in every part of our government. Obama does not even salute our flag or honor our National Anthem.

It is most wise to be aware of the tricks.

In Love and Light,
Patrick H. Bellringer

*******

Ref:
Prepared Remarks of President Barack Obama
Back to School Event

Arlington, Virginia

September 8, 2009

The President: Hello everyone – how’s everybody doing today? I’m here with students at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia. And we’ve got students tuning in from all across America, kindergarten through twelfth grade. I’m glad you all could join us today.
I know that for many of you, today is the first day of school. And for those of you in kindergarten, or starting middle or high school, it’s your first day in a new school, so it’s understandable if you’re a little nervous. I imagine there are some seniors out there who are feeling pretty good right now, with just one more year to go. And no matter what grade you’re in, some of you are probably wishing it were still summer, and you could’ve stayed in bed just a little longer this morning.
I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn’t have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday – at 4:30 in the morning.
Now I wasn’t too happy about getting up that early. A lot of times, I’d fall asleep right there at the kitchen table. But whenever I’d complain, my mother would just give me one of those looks and say, "This is no picnic for me either, buster."
So I know some of you are still adjusting to being back at school. But I’m here today because I have something important to discuss with you. I’m here because I want to talk with you about your education and what’s expected of all of you in this new school year.
Now I’ve given a lot of speeches about education. And I’ve talked a lot about responsibility.
I’ve talked about your teachers’ responsibility for inspiring you, and pushing you to learn.
I’ve talked about your parents’ responsibility for making sure you stay on track, and get your homework done, and don’t spend every waking hour in front of the TV or with that Xbox.
I’ve talked a lot about your government’s responsibility for setting high standards, supporting teachers and principals, and turning around schools that aren’t working where students aren’t getting the opportunities they deserve.
But at the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world – and none of it will matter unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities. Unless you show up to those schools; pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed.
And that’s what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself.
Every single one of you has something you’re good at. Every single one of you has something to offer. And you have a responsibility to yourself to discover what that is. That’s the opportunity an education can provide.
Maybe you could be a good writer – maybe even good enough to write a book or articles in a newspaper – but you might not know it until you write a paper for your English class. Maybe you could be an innovator or an inventor – maybe even good enough to come up with the next iPhone or a new medicine or vaccine – but you might not know it until you do a project for your science class. Maybe you could be a mayor or a Senator or a Supreme Court Justice, but you might not know that until you join student government or the debate team.
And no matter what you want to do with your life – I guarantee that you’ll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You’re going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can’t drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You’ve got to work for it and train for it and learn for it.
And this isn’t just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country. What you’re learning in school today will determine whether we as a nation can meet our greatest challenges in the future.
You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You’ll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.
We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don’t do that – if you quit on school – you’re not just quitting on yourself, you’re quitting on your country.
Now I know it’s not always easy to do well in school. I know a lot of you have challenges in your lives right now that can make it hard to focus on your schoolwork.
I get it. I know what that’s like. My father left my family when I was two years old, and I was raised by a single mother who struggled at times to pay the bills and wasn’t always able to give us things the other kids had. There were times when I missed having a father in my life. There were times when I was lonely and felt like I didn’t fit in.
So I wasn’t always as focused as I should have been. I did some things I’m not proud of, and got in more trouble than I should have. And my life could have easily taken a turn for the worse.
But I was fortunate. I got a lot of second chances and had the opportunity to go to college, and law school, and follow my dreams. My wife, our First Lady Michelle Obama, has a similar story. Neither of her parents had gone to college, and they didn’t have much. But they worked hard, and she worked hard, so that she could go to the best schools in this country.
Some of you might not have those advantages. Maybe you don’t have adults in your life who give you the support that you need. Maybe someone in your family has lost their job, and there’s not enough money to go around. Maybe you live in a neighborhood where you don’t feel safe, or have friends who are pressuring you to do things you know aren’t right.
But at the end of the day, the circumstances of your life – what you look like, where you come from, how much money you have, what you’ve got going on at home – that’s no excuse for neglecting your homework or having a bad attitude. That’s no excuse for talking back to your teacher, or cutting class, or dropping out of school. That’s no excuse for not trying.
Where you are right now doesn’t have to determine where you’ll end up. No one’s written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make your own future.
That’s what young people like you are doing every day, all across America.
Young people like Jazmin Perez, from Roma, Texas. Jazmin didn’t speak English when she first started school. Hardly anyone in her hometown went to college, and neither of her parents had gone either. But she worked hard, earned good grades, got a scholarship to Brown University, and is now in graduate school, studying public health, on her way to being Dr. Jazmin Perez.
I’m thinking about Andoni Schultz, from Los Altos, California, who’s fought brain cancer since he was three. He’s endured all sorts of treatments and surgeries, one of which affected his memory, so it took him much longer – hundreds of extra hours – to do his schoolwork. But he never fell behind, and he’s headed to college this fall.
And then there’s Shantell Steve, from my hometown of Chicago, Illinois. Even when bouncing from foster home to foster home in the toughest neighborhoods, she managed to get a job at a local health center; start a program to keep young people out of gangs; and she’s on track to graduate high school with honors and go on to college.
Jazmin, Andoni and Shantell aren’t any different from any of you. They faced challenges in their lives just like you do. But they refused to give up. They chose to take responsibility for their education and set goals for themselves. And I expect all of you to do the same.
That’s why today, I’m calling on each of you to set your own goals for your education – and to do everything you can to meet them. Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class, or spending time each day reading a book. Maybe you’ll decide to get involved in an extracurricular activity, or volunteer in your community. Maybe you’ll decide to stand up for kids who are being teased or bullied because of who they are or how they look, because you believe, like I do, that all kids deserve a safe environment to study and learn. Maybe you’ll decide to take better care of yourself so you can be more ready to learn. And along those lines, I hope you’ll all wash your hands a lot, and stay home from school when you don’t feel well, so we can keep people from getting the flu this fall and winter.
Whatever you resolve to do, I want you to commit to it. I want you to really work at it.
I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you’re not going to be any of those things.
But the truth is, being successful is hard. You won’t love every subject you study. You won’t click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won’t necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try.
That’s OK. Some of the most successful people in the world are the ones who’ve had the most failures. JK Rowling’s first Harry Potter book was rejected twelve times before it was finally published. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team, and he lost hundreds of games and missed thousands of shots during his career. But he once said, "I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
These people succeeded because they understand that you can’t let your failures define you – you have to let them teach you. You have to let them show you what to do differently next time. If you get in trouble, that doesn’t mean you’re a troublemaker, it means you need to try harder to behave. If you get a bad grade, that doesn’t mean you’re stupid, it just means you need to spend more time studying.
No one’s born being good at things, you become good at things through hard work. You’re not a varsity athlete the first time you play a new sport. You don’t hit every note the first time you sing a song. You’ve got to practice. It’s the same with your schoolwork. You might have to do a math problem a few times before you get it right, or read something a few times before you understand it, or do a few drafts of a paper before it’s good enough to hand in.
Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask for help when you need it. I do that every day. Asking for help isn’t a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of strength. It shows you have the courage to admit when you don’t know something, and to learn something new. So find an adult you trust – a parent, grandparent or teacher; a coach or counselor – and ask them to help you stay on track to meet your goals.
And even when you’re struggling, even when you’re discouraged, and you feel like other people have given up on you – don’t ever give up on yourself. Because when you give up on yourself, you give up on your country.
The story of America isn’t about people who quit when things got tough. It’s about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best.
It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation. Students who sat where you sit 75 years ago who overcame a Depression and won a world war; who fought for civil rights and put a man on the moon. Students who sat where you sit 20 years ago who founded Google, Twitter and Facebook and changed the way we communicate with each other.
So today, I want to ask you, what’s your contribution going to be? What problems are you going to solve? What discoveries will you make? What will a president who comes here in twenty or fifty or one hundred years say about what all of you did for this country?
Your families, your teachers, and I are doing everything we can to make sure you have the education you need to answer these questions. I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you’ve got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don’t let us down – don’t let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it.
Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResource ... olRemarks/

#6. (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: SA
To: <bellringer@fourwinds10.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: Siterun Contact Request from Fourwinds10

Message:

ref 'HELLO, CENTRAL!\' THOSE, WHO KEEP THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL ON SEPTEMBER 8, 2009 HAVE A SCREW LOOSE!

Dear "˜S"

I read your posts and what comes to mind is the word "confusion" in which context implies that fusion of (your) two opposite opinions about what's what. You cannot support Obama's speech and then claim that there are puppets / big money business etc.

BTW we know!

Ain't going to defend Patrick as he is a "big boy" and he can do it himself, neither I care about Obama's speech as personally don't believe any of them no matter what they say, neither care about your children I made a choice to have none.

However I must state the obvious that Patrick did posted you conflicting posts in their entirety and commented enough for you to get a grip. It OK for P to moderate his site you know, and since you been around you should that know that Fourwinds are a lot more tolerant to "lets say" nonsense that other sites.

The logic behind been tolerant with yours and others posts it gives the chance to discuss, to exchange opinions, to some to ridicule themselves, and others to learn to organise their thoughts, decide which one applies to you if any.

We "usually" - are a good folk around here (the Fourwinds site), also intelligent, educated and bloody fearless so don't make statements that have no substance, but then again I state the obvious and is getting kinda boring.

With not much\'light' as you are using it for the wrong part of your body “verbally at least- .

cheers SA

#7 (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: RM
To: Patrick H. Bellringer
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Your volly with S.
09-07-09

Patrick H. Bellringer
Re: Reply from S

Dear Patrick,
Regarding your volley with S. ...Behold, the forces of God and Evil clash as the beast spews out his venom of hate and deceit when confronted with the Truth of his evil plans. The spread of Truth threatens to spoil the beast's already rotten plans for control of the nations young minds for THE EVIL AND TOTAL CONTROL OF OUR NATION.

To S. I say, "sticks and stones, love". You were very generous to allow her to spew her swill on your blog. "By their fruits, you shall know them"...

I have not heard Reagan's speech of Nov. 14, 1988 so I cannot comment on it. If this is true, my apologies. Reagan was in greater step with the values of the American people than any other President since. Obama is no Reagan. Reagan spoke out against socialism in stark contrast to the present,"alleged" President and the majority of the Democratic loaded Congress. The two speeches (see below) enforce my point. Regardless, I still do not think it is appropriate for a President (especially with so much power of the controlled-media, all the departments and appointed Czars , and propaganda machine at its disposal) to address the nation's youth.

Ever in the Light of Truth,
R.M.

#8. (Reply)

----- Original Message -----
From: D
To: <bellringer@fourwinds10.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:38 PM
Subject: Siterun Contact Request from Fourwinds10
Message:

To those "letter to Patrick" writers that have the depth of an ant and half the intelligence, I leave this thought. The content of the speech means nothing. The deliverer of the speech is the message. That message is, he is the father, the daddy, the trusted soul tslking to those who will be voting in a very few years, and/or running the federal programs.

Create the faith and trust in those that spew the socialist/communist NWO agenda. After all, it is what we all want so badly, and our children, well indoctrinated, can pick up where we left off.

#9. (Reply)
----- Original Message -----
From: T
To: Patrick Bellringer
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 8:38 PM
Subject: HAVE A SCREW LOOSE! (Updated Sept. 7, 2009)

FIRST THING TO REMEMBER!!! We still have freedom of speech. That applies to the kids, as well as Patrick, me and you, and yes, even Obama. If it goes for one, it goes for all!!! Remember that.

But remember what the schools are set up for, learning, education, all those good things, when handled properly. It has been centuries since the schools have told the truth, the facts. Everyone knows that the kids are taught only what the so called government wants them to know. One of the main reasons we have millions dropping out of public schools every year, and it is getting worse. The only place to get a proper education for your kids today is in home schooling. THAT has been proven to be a fact!!! When home schooled, they get the attention they need, their grades are always higher, and almost all of them WANT to go to college. I hated public schools when I was in them, and now I hate them even more. You want your kids to be taught properly, pull them out of the public schools, and diligently home school your kids.

Light is education, and God said, "Let there be light." He meant it. Don't limit them by putting kids in public schools!!!

Second thing to remember!!! You can always judge people by what they do, far better than what they say. Whether you like it or not, EVERY parent is a teacher!!! You might be teaching them good, or you might be teaching them bad. But you ARE teaching them every day of your lives. By example. And trust me, they are sponges, they soak up everything!!

That said, take a good loooooooong look at what Obama has actually done. Presidents have gotten kicked out of office for a good deal less!!! The list is too long for me to post in here. But the main one is that his legal birth certificate says clearly that he should never been allowed to run for president. He has defrauded our country, you and me. He has tried to steal trillions of dollars from all of us, and openly, and repeatedly, declared himself ruler of the world. He is the worst kind of dictator ever, and he is running this country. We don't take him to court, we let him get away with crimes that grow and grow every single day. His form of healthcare is a farce, criminal. And quite frankly, he could care less about our kids. He wants to give them poison that will kill them!!! Think about it. THINK ABOUT IT!!! Forcing people to be inoculated is criminal. People have the right to refuse to take shots.

We have been very well trained SHEEPLE, and they are using that to take over the world, not just this country.

You people have got to wake up and take a real good smell of the BS they are shoveling out!!! If you don't wake up, and do something about it, you get what you deserve. Just like Casper said. EDUCATE YOURSELF, now. Before it is too late.

T

[Deep Knight]

Another Bellringer posting by Chelsea Schilling, this one about last weekend's protest in Washington.

Tea Partiers March on U. S. Capitol
Chesea Schilling
Sept. 12, 2009

Hundreds of thousands descend on Capitol

WASHINGTON – The capital was rocked today by a taxpayer march and rally that could be the biggest protest ever – potentially dwarfing the Million Man March and the Promise Keepers Rally.

Though crowd estimates vary from as low as 60,000 to 70,000 according to ABC News to a high of 2 million by London Daily Mail, photographs and videos of the march and rally demonstrate its enormity.

The taxpayers stormed Washington, D.C., today, taking their fight against excessive spending, bailouts, growth of big government and soaring deficits to the front door of the U.S. Capitol.

All week citizens have been heading to the Hill by the busloads for the showdown today. The Tea Party Patriots' "Tea Party Express" national bus tour has been hosting a series of tea party rallies all across the nation. A caravan of buses, speakers and entertainers arrived in Washington, D.C., just in time for the march. The taxpayers have paid their own way to the event.

The White House said Friday it was unaware of the rally. President Obama has traveled to Minneapolis, Minn., to promote his health-care plans at a rally there.

But so many taxpayers showed up on Pennsylvania Avenue that the crowd ran out of room and the march was forced to begin early.

WND was at the scene to get crowd reaction and take photos of the protest.

Live at the scene in Washington, D.C. (WND photo)
Citizens carried hand-made signs that read:

2010: Vote all incumbents out!
Our Constitution has termites!
We are under attack by our own government
Stop the march of socialism
You can put lipstick on communism, but it's still communism
My family, my doctor
Obamacare makes me sick
Go green: Recycle Congress
I'm not your ATM
We had a dream. We got a nightmare
Is this Russia?
You Lie!

Washington march photo by Barbara Auchter

Some people donned colonial costumes while the crowd was sprinkled with U.S. and yellow "Don't tread on me" flags.

Visit the one and only "tea party store" now.
Laurie Slough (WND photo)

Others, like Laurie Slough of Orlando, Fla., also dressed in costume to demonstrate their message. Slough wore a prison costume and carried a sign that read, "Criminals in Congress, your judgment day is coming."

WND also noticed many anti-ACORN signs, following the recent controversy in which one of the organization's offices was exposed supporting prostitution and human trafficking.

Politico reported among the signs seen were those asking "Where's the Birth Certificate?" – reflections of WND's extensive coverage of the yet-unanswered questions surrounding Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as president.

Fox News reported lines of citizens completely filled Pennsylvania Avenue for blocks.

"It was wall-to-wall people. I felt like I was in line for Obama health care," said participant Robert Barney of Chesapeake, Va.

Organizers have told the media they expect the event to be the largest group of fiscal conservatives to ever gather in Washington.

Richard Brigle, 57, a Vietnam War veteran and former Teamster, came from Paw Paw, Mich. He told Fox News that he believes the nation needs health-care reform – but not President Obama's plan.

"My grandkids are going to be paying for this. It's going to cost too much money that we don't have," he said while marching with a wooden cane.

Fox News live footage shows thousands at Capitol

According to the Washington Times, the "Tea Party Express" tour was the fourth most popular topic searched on Yahoo last week. Joe Wierzbicki, national coordinator of the Tea Party Express, told the Times he expected a large turnout.

"We were expecting 25,000 a few weeks ago, but now we are hoping for over 50,000," Wierzbicki said.

Get your copy of "Joe the Plumber: Fighting for the American Dream" now!

Several organizations united to help organize the National Taxpayer Protest's descent on the Capitol, including: Freedom Works, Grassfire/ResistNet, Tea Party Patriots, National Taxpayers Union, Club for Growth, Americans for Tax Reform, Young Americans for Liberty, Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights, Our Country Deserves Better, Campaign for Liberty, Leadership Institute, Free Republic, Young America's Foundation, the National Association of Rural Land Owners and Smart Girl Politics.

Washington march photo by Barbara Auchter

Brendan Steinhauser of FreedomWorks, one of the groups that organized the event, told WND, "People want to do this. The people who have been protesting around the country want to come to Washington and do this in D.C. In a lot of ways, they are being ignored and the media is underrepresenting them and their numbers. They want to come together for one big event and send a very clear message."

I could comment on many things, but would like to start with numbers. The first photo shown is one already well-debunked as being from another event more than 10 years ago (you can tell by a building that's not there). It is being shown as "evidence" of the turnout, listed here as being from 60-70 thousand to 2 million. First of all, if estimates are this wide, it says something about the quality of estimates. Second, 60-70 thousand are not the low estimate, 15 thousand is, and looking at the web I find that those who actually tried to measure the event using arial photos put it at 25-35 thousand. 60-70 thousand is the upper estimate, with 2 million being what you get when people pull a number out of their hat.

My favorite crowd estimate fallout is from Rep. Marsha Blackburn, a Tennessee Republican, who spoke and told the crowd that the highways around Washington had been closed due to the overwhelming turnout (which strangely didn't make the news anywhere else). It seems this was the "Woodstock" framing of the event, which was picked up by others, especially "El Marco" here http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2009/09 ... e-capital/ If this really was the conservative Woodstock, does this make Ms. Blackburn its Arlo Guthrie and Ms. Shilling (who wasn't there) its Joni Mitchell?

[Brandybuck]

I've seen estimates all over the board, from people who were actually there. It's really hard to estimate when you're on the ground, of course, but while two million is way way too high, 25,000 seems far too low. Are there any decent aerial photos of the event?

[Nikki]

I'm sure the closed roads had nothing to do with either the ongoing highway construction or the Iron Man race which was being run at the same time.

[Brandybuck]

Here's a link talking about the numbers. http://www.reason.com/blog/show/136065.html

Two million is way too high, but twenty five thousand is way too low. Both sides appear to be exaggerating their estimates.

[Deep Knight]

I checked the link but don't think that knowing the capacity of the Orange Bowl and using its size to estimate crowds is a very good method. Something about sitting down in well ordered seating vs. a milling crowd. But, that's less important than the "Woodstock" storyline (or "meme" as they say these days), which intrigues me.

[Brandybuck]

The park service used to estimate crowd by how far down the mall they went. While not accurate, that same method does suggest a quarter of a million.

[Deep Knight]

The park service used to estimate crowd by how far down the mall they went. While not accurate, that same method does suggest a quarter of a million.

As I understand it the crowd wasn't on the mall but Pennsylvania Ave. (and this is from Free Republic, not known as a liberal outlet). But I wasn't there and don't know how to estimate crowd sizes anyway (although I hear that trying to do it from the ground is futile). I just think it's interesting that, a) internet promoters of a huge turnout used a bogus photo as evidence, which suggests more than a little "crowd size envy," and b) that Bellringer chose a post that gave 2 million, which was seriously inflated by anyone's count except the guy quoted below.

Since the capitol police were supposedly caught off guard by the teaming throng of two million, as was Robert Gibbs (sure), then Nancy Pelosi must really have been caught off guard, surely terrified when two million “astroturf nazis” invaded her town unexpectedly. Did she spend the day in her D. C. bunker, or was she out with B. Hussein in Minnesota today speaking to fifteen thousand union members at the Target Center, acting as if nothing was happening today in D. C.? They remind me of comical nazi Sergeant Schultz on the old Hogan’s Heros tv series, who when faced with an inconvenient situational truth, would close his eyes and exclaim, “I see nuthink!”

And the media (as we all know) is riddled with Sergeant Schultz’s who march in lockstep to Obama’s fascist pied piper song, proven again by the early reports from the massive D. C. rally by the networks saying only “tens of thousands” were there, which of course, is technically correct: it’s two hundred “tens of thousands,” another way to say two million, but I doubt you’ll hear the million word out of most of the leftist talking heads’ mouths, prefering instead to sneakily call it “tens of thousands” (two hundred of them).

[Deep Knight]

Driving into work this morning (got to get to the office to thwart those secret law announcements) I listened to "Keith and Gail" on a local conservative talk radio outlet. Their topic was the protest in Washington and a caller ripped them a new one because they stated that 2 million attendees was an overestimate. This guy was noticably upset and insisted that there was "over two million" as reported by the "British press." He also used the following logic, a) he didn't know anyone who liked President Obama, b) he knew plenty of people who didn't like him, so thus c) more people MUST have shown up for 9-12 than the "inflated" 1.8 million that showed up for the inauguration. And we wonder why people believe Dove & Co's nonsense...

[Brandybuck]

Hey, it's a free country. If you really want to believe that there were only 15,000 to 25,000 people there, no one is going to stop you.

[Deep Knight]

Hey, it's a free country. If you really want to believe that there were only 15,000 to 25,000 people there, no one is going to stop you.

I want to believe that flying monkeys will carry Bellringer off to a molten lava pit, but that's neither here nor there.

If I am to believe your signature, you are a sane Paulite, which I assume means Ron Paul. What I like most about Dr. Paul is that he doesn't shirk from telling the truth, or at least the truth as he sees it, no matter how this might affect his spin. Which is probably why he's never caught on. Anyway, I don't agree with him on most things, but am so hungry for a real honest political debate instead of exercises in propaganda that I would vote for anyone who would give me this. I also believe that there was a real number of people at this rally and that that someone should be able to estimate this without politics getting into it. Yes, I know, I'm a impractical dreamer.

As for Bellringer, he wouldn't know the honest truth if it walked up and bit him on his behind. Which was my point in posting this in the first place. I am a bit disappointed that there wasn't a NESARA contingent in the crowd (as there was for many demonstrations, including the million We The People march on Washington that had about 500 people & 12 NESARA supporters show up). Dove & her NTAT are too lazy to organize anymore, Bellringer doesn't do that sort of thing, and Lord Rama couldn't organize a shoebox. Too bad, those would have given both supporters and non-supporters the sort of WTF? moment that could have been common ground for them both. After all, we're all Americans, aren't we (my apologies to any foreign nationals reading this, especially space aliens)?

[Deep Knight]

Bellringer has 3 more angry posts about crowd size on 9-12 in DC. I have been searching for an objective count of the protest, but quite honestly I can't find one. Those who believe it was huge are just angry, and those who believe otherwise have moved on. However, I did find this (below) from Monday at Saloon which both addresses the "Reason" article linked to above, and at least sounds reasonable.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/ ... rowd_size/

The final word on crowd size at conservative protest

It's a little ridiculous that the Internet is still filled with arguments over the size of the crowd that attended the conservative protest at the Capitol on Saturday (and yes, I recognize that War Room has had a few posts on the issue). But I feel the need to weigh in on this one final time, because the right is still hopping mad, convinced the media has been playing down the attendance figures, and they're still dealing with a lot of bad information. Plus, I was there, and I saw the scope of the protest for myself. It was not nearly as large as a lot of people are saying.

As the Atlantic's Max Fisher correctly observed in one post on Monday, "It's an institutional hazard of covering protests that reporters seek out the center of the action and don't budge, giving them great anecdotes from individual attendees but little sense of the event's overall scope. Similarly, it's easy for bloggers to just read after-action reports or browse a few photos before drawing conclusions. But these are both risky strategies for covering big events, and it's easy to see why people are so confused about Saturday's attendance figures."

That explains things like Reason's Nick Gillespie posting a graph drawn up by a reader who showed the crowd reaching almost halfway down the National Mall from the Capitol. And it comes close to explaining the lack of common sense put into the eager acceptance of an aerial photo purportedly showing the Mall overflowing with protesters -- the photo, Politifact reports, was actually taken more than a decade ago.

I've covered my share of protests and rallies by this point, and I now have a routine for doing so. Before starting to interview protesters, I try to walk around and through the event to get a feel for the mood and size of the crowd. That's what I did on Saturday, too: First, I walked up as close as I could get to the podium, which was on the Capitol lawn, to try to look down at the National Mall and get a sense of how many people were there. It's hard to blame anyone who's basing his or her belief that the crowd was mind-bogglingly large on that perspective alone -- from there, due to a large group of tents set up on the Mall, it seemed as if the protest stretched for miles.

But then I went for a walk along the Mall. From the ground there, it was clear the rally petered out pretty quickly. Some on the right are claiming that more than 1 million people were at the event. In order for all those people to have space to stand, the Mall would have had to be packed from the Capitol down past 1st, 2nd and 3rd Streets and as far as 14th Street. In fact, as I noted in a post to Twitter that I wrote from the Mall, the crowd "all but end[ed] at 3rd Street." There were some protesters scattered through the block from 3rd to 4th, but not many, and after that it was green space all the way beyond 7th Street, at which point the tents -- which were for an unrelated event -- took over. (If you're not familiar with the geography of the Mall, there's a map here.)

Don't believe someone from Salon would accurately report what he saw on the Mall on Saturday? That's fine -- take a look at this photo, from a post on a conservative blog that's been used as evidence of a big crowd. Just past all the people in the foreground, you can see a bright blue blob -- that's a Freedom Works bus, which was parked on 3rd Street. (For perspective, look to the far right of the photo, where you can see the two buildings in the National Gallery of Art; the first stretches from 3rd to 4th.) Beyond that bus, up until the tents begin, all you can see is green grass.

I'm not going to get into the amateur science game some bloggers are playing, in which they imagine themselves magically capable of accurately calculating crowd numbers. I can't pretend to be an authority on that -- I just know that they're starting from a faulty assumption, and that the area the protest took up was not nearly as large as they believe it was.

Besides, Nate Silver makes a good point: "Mock the protesters at your peril: business as usual suddenly isn't so good for Democrats these days, and the sentiments of the 70,000 people who marched on Washington surely mirror those of millions more sitting at home."

― Alex Koppelman