14,700 offshore account taxpayers came forward

[bmielke]

Tom Clancy wrote in one of his books, "A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money." I don't know where Blinky is from, but where I'm from 100 Billion is real money.

[Dr. Caligari]

Tom Clancy wrote in one of his books, "A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money."

That was (former U.S. Senate Minority Leader) Everrett Dirksen.

[Number Six]

The gov has indeed gone bat-sh*t insane with spending. But that's a political issue that is unrelated to the success of the UBS lawsuits.

Do you suppose there is a consequence in the political views of those having to "come clean" with the government? Or do anger, fear and other strong instinctual emotions blind those offshore account holders who are having to throw their big chips into the treasury? I would think that honest taxpayers have a lot more credibility in their political judgments than various types of befuddled tax protestors. There is no free lunch and when large sums of money are transferred to stewards of the commonweal, I would think the ethical burden is then upon them.

[bmielke]

Tom Clancy wrote in one of his books, "A billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money."

That was (former U.S. Senate Minority Leader) Everrett Dirksen.

Oh, I had no Idea it came from someplace else, I will try to remember that next time I use it.

[SteveSy]

I love that this is happening. The classic 'Swiss Bank Account' is coming to an end.

Remember boys and girls the government is reporting these huge returns from this program. Are we going to all of a sudden forget every single thing related to finance they publicly report is skewed in one way or another?

There will be deals and there will be tax lawyers involved. The government isn't going to collect half of what they claim, and probably not even a third...let's get back to reality folks. Don't pee in your pants in glee at the prospect of ending offshore tax cheats too fast...this IMO is akin to catching a couple of people shoplifting TV's and proclaiming we've put an end to shoplifting. Better yet we are winning the war on drugs because we shut down a coke facility in Bolivia.

On a side note UBS had around 52,000 U.S. clients, UBS only has to give up names that fit a certain criteria. This is just UBS...consider how many more U.S. clients are out there. The government would save far more money fixing Medicare and Medicaid fraud than they would have doing this.

I do believe this. Still though this is little solace though considering people that make their livings off of capitol gains only pay 15% while I am subject to 15% for social security plus federal income taxes. So I still see the rich are beating me as far as taxes go. They still aren't paying their fair share.

Not to get off topic but...I hate this mentality. The "rich", people making more than you, pay 97% of the taxes in this country. I suppose when you go buy a car your price for a car should be 97% cheaper than a rich guys because you make less. If it weren't for the "rich" you wouldn't have a job, nor a government that could even operate. The "rich" are paying for nearly everything and you feel screwed?

I'm done invading the topic...lol

[Judge Roy Bean]

...Still though this is little solace though considering people that make their livings off of capitol [sic] gains only pay 15% while I am subject to 15% for social security plus federal income taxes. So I still see the rich are beating me as far as taxes go. They still aren't paying their fair share....

This is a common and oft-reinforced myth. What you're failing to realize is that the gains made on the investment of capital (money) were derived as a result of investing earnings (money) on which taxes had already been paid.

[jcolvin2]

[

...Still though this is little solace though considering people that make their livings off of capitol [sic] gains only pay 15% while I am subject to 15% for social security plus federal income taxes. So I still see the rich are beating me as far as taxes go. They still aren't paying their fair share....

This is a common and oft-reinforced myth. What you're failing to realize is that the gains made on the investment of capital (money) were derived as a result of investing earnings (money) on which taxes had already been paid.

What is the conceptual difference between taxing earnings on labor and earnings on capital? In either case, labor and capital are employed beneficially to created goods and services for the economy.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...What is the conceptual difference between taxing earnings on labor and earnings on capital? In either case, labor and capital are employed beneficially to created goods and services for the economy.

The laborer's earnings they invest as capital have already been taxed. The other piece of the economic equation you left out are jobs. Capital generates jobs which is why our unemployment rate will stay above 10% for the foreseeable future; capitalism is under attack.

[Demosthenes]

Remember boys and girls the government is reporting these huge returns from this program. Are we going to all of a sudden forget every single thing related to finance they publicly report is skewed in one way or another?

There will be deals and there will be tax lawyers involved. The government isn't going to collect half of what they claim, and probably not even a third

Under the terms of the 2009 offshore Voluntary Disclosure program, those who came in from cold by the recent deadline applied for the program. If their application is accepted, they have to pay the taxes, interest, and huge penalties up front at the time of the signing of the closing agreement or prove economic hardship. If they don't pay up front or prove hardship (keep in mind these are very wealthy people), they're going to be criminally prosecuted.

The penalties, by the way, are huge.

...let's get back to reality folks. Don't pee in your pants in glee at the prospect of ending offshore tax cheats too fast...this IMO is akin to catching a couple of people shoplifting TV's and proclaiming we've put an end to shoplifting.

More than 14,000 of the US' wealthiest tax cheats came forward. It's a big deal. Have you even reviewed the terms of the penalties they had to agree to and pay to avoid criminal prosecution?

On a side note UBS had around 52,000 U.S. clients.

Actually, they had 52,000 accounts, not clients. Clients can have more than one account. 14,500 people came in from the cold. We don’t yet know how many accounts this represents.

UBS only has to give up names that fit a certain criteria.

Yep. The biggest accounts (greater than roughly $1,000,000) and those accounts where fraud is apparent.

This is just UBS...consider how many more U.S. clients are out there.

It isn’t just UBS. There have been recent indictments involving other Swiss banks, and the 14,700 people who participated in the Voluntary Disclosure program disclosed offshore accounts in 70 different countries, not just Switzerland.

The government would save far more money fixing Medicare and Medicaid fraud than they would have doing this.

That takes a tad more than a couple of lawsuits to accomplish…

[jcolvin2]

...What is the conceptual difference between taxing earnings on labor and earnings on capital? In either case, labor and capital are employed beneficially to created goods and services for the economy.

The laborer's earnings they invest as capital have already been taxed. The other piece of the economic equation you left out are jobs. Capital generates jobs which is why our unemployment rate will stay above 10% for the foreseeable future; capitalism is under attack.

I know the arguments for giving capital tax preferences, i.e. tax preferences for return on capital encourage capital formation, etc. However, I think the argument that capital "has already been taxed" is not necessarily correct. Given the relative free flow of capital in the world, "untaxed" capital from foreign or tax-free domestic sources (e.g. previously invested in tax exempt instruments, insurance proceeds, etc.) may be used. Moreover, labor also requires the application of "after tax" money to pay for the non-deductible costs of food, lodging, shelter, education, etc, in order to have a labor force. I am still not sure that there is a conceptual difference between the two types of earnings (earnings from capital and earnings from labor). Certainly, there may be an optimal differential tax rate to achieve maximal economic growth (which may change over time as our economy becomre more "post-industrial") for society as a whole, but I am not sure that is because of any inherent difference between the two types of income.

[Nikki]

People who receive significant income from capital gains, when compared to wage earners, make much larger campaign contributions.

[Judge Roy Bean]

People who receive significant income from capital gains, when compared to wage earners, make much larger campaign contributions.

Would you care to cite some kind of authoritative source of that claim?

While you're trying to find it (good luck), don't forget the millions who barely get by on their capital gains nowadays and can't afford any campaign contributions.

[Demosthenes]

http://tpcprod.urban.org/publications/u ... ID=1001201

Fewer than one in seven individual income taxpayers reported taxable capital gains in 2006. Over half of taxpayers with gains had incomes below $75,000, but most capital gains were reported by very high income taxpayers. The 3 percent of returns with AGI over $200,000 reported 31 percent of AGI and 83 percent of capital gains; the 0.3 percent with AGI over $1,000,000 reported 15 percent of AGI and 61 percent of capital gains. Many more Americans accrue capital gains on corporate shares they hold within tax-deferred employer-sponsored retirement plans, but they do not pay capital gains tax on these gains.