Summons, Sanctions, and More

[Prof]

Well, David, you had your chance. Just think: All you would have had to do is show real evidence that your methods have succeeded--even once--and I would have been persuaded.

It would have been really easy. And it would have been so effective. Just think: No more having to engage in endless arguments about the meaning of a single statute or the differences between a tax lien and a Notice of Federal Tax Lien. You could have put The Observer in his place, quickly and completely. The proof would be there for all to see.

I'm so disappointed. I'm sure the Readers also are.

Just for the "Readers" or for the "Record," I have no idea what a "personal tax" or "personal tax lien" is. The filing requirements concern notice of a federal tax lien which has attached to personal property and the attachment of the lien to real property-- one is filed with the UCC central filing office at (usually) the Sec. of State of the State of ______; the other is filied in the country/parish real property records.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "personal tax/personal tax lien/notice of personal tax lien."
Of course, there is "personal property" and "real property."

[The Observer]

It would have been really easy. And it would have been so effective. Just think: No more having to engage in endless arguments about the meaning of a single statute or the differences between a tax lien and a Notice of Federal Tax Lien. You could have put The Observer in his place, quickly and completely. The proof would be there for all to see.

Well, I gave him multiple opportunities weeks ago to put me in my place by providing evidence of the success of his lien "termination" and he failed to do that as well. So I am not sure why you thought you would have had any more luck than I would.

But who knows - maybe we will get to see David blurting once again about how "terminators" will have to go see the lawyer in black robes about those levies the IRS served on their wages or accounts.

[The Observer]

Just for the "Readers" or for the "Record," I have no idea what a "personal tax" or "personal tax lien" is. The filing requirements concern notice of a federal tax lien which has attached to personal property and the attachment of the lien to real property-- one is filed with the UCC central filing office at (usually) the Sec. of State of the State of ______; the other is filied in the country/parish real property records.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "personal tax/personal tax lien/notice of personal tax lien."
Of course, there is "personal property" and "real property."

Well, that is why I asked David to provide a cite for the law about "personal tax liens." Because up to this point in my life, I have yet to have ever seen such a creature. David keeps insisting that they exist, and we keep asking for proof. Instead, we just get meaningless links about the Knights Templar treasure and how to decipher the map on the back of the Declaration of Independence.

[webhick]

Instead, we just get meaningless links about the Knights Templar treasure and how to decipher the map on the back of the Declaration of Independence.

The Knights Templar will be performing the award winning Broadway play, "I Am the Personal Tax Lien, Where Is My Dinner" this Friday. It's already sold out.

As for the map on the back of the Declaration of Independence. It's really a grocery list. Get over it.

The real map to "a treasure" was originally written on a roll of toilet paper by Thomas Mifflin. You see, the others were arguing over whether or not David Brearley's shirt was tea rose pink, coral pink or salmon pink in color. This argument lasted hours and when the conversation took a sharp turn towards thread count poor Thomas decided that he had taken all he could and he locked himself in the bathroom. During his long stay there, he wrote many dirty limericks on the wall about John Hancock's wife and when he grew bored of that - he drew a map. The map was originally an escape route that Thomas drafted to get the hell out of there, but when he followed it he found himself secretly hidden away in a vast cavernous porcelain hideout. He chose to store his used toe-nail clipping there. It's really not worth finding.

[David Merrill]

Well, David, you had your chance. Just think: All you would have had to do is show real evidence that your methods have succeeded--even once--and I would have been persuaded.

It would have been really easy. And it would have been so effective. Just think: No more having to engage in endless arguments about the meaning of a single statute or the differences between a tax lien and a Notice of Federal Tax Lien. You could have put The Observer in his place, quickly and completely. The proof would be there for all to see.

I'm so disappointed. I'm sure the Readers also are.

Just for the "Readers" or for the "Record," I have no idea what a "personal tax" or "personal tax lien" is. The filing requirements concern notice of a federal tax lien which has attached to personal property and the attachment of the lien to real property-- one is filed with the UCC central filing office at (usually) the Sec. of State of the State of ______; the other is filied in the country/parish real property records.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "personal tax/personal tax lien/notice of personal tax lien."
Of course, there is "personal property" and "real property."

Your blurts are always quite welcome Prof.

I think it clear to the Readers that a personal lien means personal property or there would be some major squalking about the de facto Thirteenth (Slavery) Amendment.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[David Merrill]

1. Personal Property not titled: All 50 states and the DC, having adopted the new version of art. 9 of the UCC, now require central filing, not local filing, of art. 9 liens -- and that is the central place for filing federal tax liens in the states,without exception, as far as I know. The state of filing is determined by the residence of the debtor or the place of organization of the debtor if the debtor is not a human (individual).


2. Real Estate: Real property tax liens are accepted for filing in the real property records where the realty is located and personal property liens against fixtures, crops growing, timber unharvested are filed in the same office. This office will be found in the county where the property is located, except in Louisiana, where it will be found in the Parish.

3. Certificate of title goods: Some personal property, including automobiles not held as inventory, mobile homes not permanently affixed to real estate, and boats and motors, are titled by the States. To create a perfected lien against those items, the lien must be set out on the title. Since the IRS would have to find the title, which will be in the debtor's possession, or in the possession of a lender, the IRS, as far as I know, never perfects on these goods. Titled goods held by dealers, wholesale, retail, resellers, consignees, etc., are subject to ordinary art. 9 liens, so the tax lien agains "Corner Used Cars" or "Central Ford" would be filed with the central UCC files at the State level.

4. Other: There are some types of personal property as to which liens can only be perfected by possession. As to those items, a tax lien becomes perfected only when the IRS actually seizes the property, by exercising the lien created automatically by the statute at sec. 6321.

That's when they just come take stuff.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[David Merrill]

It may take some thought but consider this.

Prof has a firm rule against speaking to my posts and word salad as you all like to call it. So think about it; What brought him out? What is it that brought him to break his rule?

Just for the "Readers" or for the "Record," I have no idea what a "personal tax" or "personal tax lien" is. The filing requirements concern notice of a federal tax lien which has attached to personal property and the attachment of the lien to real property-- one is filed with the UCC central filing office at (usually) the Sec. of State of the State of ______; the other is filied in the country/parish real property records.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "personal tax/personal tax lien/notice of personal tax lien."
Of course, there is "personal property" and "real property."

When you consider the level of thinking attorney/retired law professor Prof is accustomed to posting; you might agree he has been reduced to Damage Control here.


Thanks Prof!


David Merrill.

[grammarian44]

David, I'm completely prepared to be persuaded regarding Prof, The Observer, and everyone else on this site if you can just provide one clear example of a successfully terminated tax lien that has survived the statute of limitations.

You've said repeatedly that your followers--whether Readers or not--have had success in terminating tax liens using your methods. You're very proud of your accomplishments in that regard.

I would think that, considering how important your methods are, you would save at least one clear-cut example to demonstrate to others the powers of your methods.

In fact, you don't even have to be the one to provide the example. Maybe one of the Readers has used your methods successfully or knows someone who has.

If any of the Readers--the ones who view the site and know that David is right--have any evidence of a successful termination of a tax lien that has survived the statute of limitations, speak up! I'm waiting to hear from you.

David, I'm sure that if your methods have had any success whatsoever, someone is bound to respond to my plea. In fact, if there are such people, I can't imagine that they would hesitate to step forward to show examples of terminated tax liens right away, and surely in the next 24 hours or so.

I look forward to what I'm sure will be hundreds of replies.

[David Merrill]

What do you mean by that?

David, I'm completely prepared to be persuaded regarding Prof, The Observer, and everyone else on this site if you can just provide one clear example of a successfully terminated tax lien that has survived the statute of limitations.

You mean ten years?

This one didn't even survive the first inquiry:

With respect to each assessment below, unless the notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in 6325(a).

What a piece of misdirection! That was probably written by Prof himself...

That one came by fax from the IRS agent to a broker so the suitor simply filed it at the county clerk and recorder; the release as stated. Then he showed it to the broker and even used it to clean up his credit reports.


Regards,

David Merrill.

P.S. Grammarian said:

David, I'm completely prepared to be persuaded regarding Prof, The Observer, and everyone else on this site if you can just provide one clear example of a successfully terminated tax lien that has survived the statute of limitations.

David, I'm sure that if your methods have had any success whatsoever, someone is bound to respond to my plea. In fact, if there are such people, I can't imagine that they would hesitate to step forward to show examples of terminated tax liens right away, and surely in the next 24 hours or so.

I look forward to what I'm sure will be hundreds of replies.

I think you are in a fog about what Quatloos is compared to what it began as.

Nobody is bound to respond to your plea. Your plea is basically based in the distortions brought into these forums by The Observer.

However Prof and Judge Roy Bean have come a long way at dispelling those distortions. Thanks to them.

In fact, if there are such people, I can't imagine that they would hesitate to step forward to show examples of terminated tax liens right away, and surely in the next 24 hours or so.

You have not much imagination:

http://www.deathandtaxes.com/bio.htm
http://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/totalitarianism_today/2004/12/beware_of_helpf.html

Since I will not appreciate anyone I know pandering into your philosophy of being bound to respond, I can simply threaten them with Demosthenes' Death and Taxes outlook on life.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[grammarian44]

Well, here we are the next morning, and still no one, including David, has stepped forward with evidence of a terminated tax lien that has survived the applicable statute of limitations.

The links David posted quoted some IRS documents, none of which showed evidence of a terminated tax lien. Other links were bios of Demo, apparently on the theory that if anyone were to step forward with a terminated tax lien, Demo would somehow apprehend that person.

David, I thought your strategy for terminating tax liens was perfectly legal, indeed, that is was founded squarely on the text of the law! As I recall, you have said more than once that hundreds of people are terminating liens without the IRS having any legal recourse against them. If so, then why would anyone--including you--hesitate to show us examples of terminated tax liens?

For that matter, I note that you are still here, posting away, and that no federal agents appear to be beating down your door.

How could that be?

Again, you have a great chance here to show me--show us alll, in fact--that you're right. Just one little example--please?

[Demosthenes]

Other links were bios of Demo,

That should read "bio" of Demo. The Stefanescu link is fiction.

[grammarian44]

Other links were bios of Demo,

That should read "bio" of Demo. The Stefanescu link is fiction.

My apologies to Demo. The argument remains the same: Given that David's strategies are legal, as he claims, he has nothing to fear in showing us an example of a terminated federal tax lien, or any other evidence that his methods have successfully resulted in termination of tax liens.

[The Observer]

David, I thought your strategy for terminating tax liens was perfectly legal, indeed, that is was founded squarely on the text of the law! As I recall, you have said more than once that hundreds of people are terminating liens without the IRS having any legal recourse against them. If so, then why would anyone--including you--hesitate to show us examples of terminated tax liens?

If he ever answers that question to any degree of satisfaction for you, see if you can get him to respond about what is the practical effect of "terminating" liens.

[LPC]

The argument remains the same: Given that David's strategies are legal, as he claims, he has nothing to fear in showing us an example of a terminated federal tax lien, or any other evidence that his methods have successfully resulted in termination of tax liens.

What if he plans to patent them and doesn't want to disclose his strategies until after he has submitted his patent application?

(Background: A major controversy among tax lawyers is the granting of patents on tax strategies by the Patent Office.)

(More background: As applied to the "strategies" of TAFKADMVP, I'm being facetious.)

[grammarian44]

What if he plans to patent them and doesn't want to disclose his strategies until after he has submitted his patent application?

Good point, Dan! There is considerable controversy about whether tax strategies should be entitled to patent protection, but for now, we have to assume David's strategies are patentable.

David, I would like to modify my request slightly. I'm looking for evidence of a terminated tax lien that has survived to the expiration of the SOL. However, in the interest of protecting your potential or actual patent rights, you do not have to lay out each step in your method. All you have to do is show us enough information to allow us to conclude (1) that the tax lien came into existence, (2) that you exercised your legal strategies--whatever they might be--upon it, (3) that the tax lien was terminated, and (4) that the IRS has now lost any right to pursue any assets formerly subject to the lien.

Given that I am not expecting you to provide any details about the strategy itself, my request should be even easier to satisfy than it was before.

[silversopp]

Given that I am not expecting you to provide any details about the strategy itself, my request should be even easier to satisfy than it was before.

I think you must have missed David's response that he can't show you something that isn't there. He has admitted that he has never successfully used his technique.

It is along the same lines as his "lawful money" redeeming. He talks about it, about what he thinks it is, why it should work, but he frequently posts the court case that ruled everything he is talking about to be bogus.

I think that David is doing one of two things:
1) He knows that it doesn't work this way, but he's trying to get support to change the system to work in the way he described.
2) He purposely posts admissions that he's wrong, and enjoys the reaction he gets from people who miss it and continue to play along with his game.

He's said he can't show you anyone who got the lien terminated because they don't exist.

[grammarian44]

I did see his statement that the evidence I was asking for does not exist, and I deliberately chose not to pounce on it. I ignored it because I didn't want to get into an argument about why such evidence is not available (which would just stir up all sorts of conspiracy thinking, which is, unfortuantely, what has happened anyway).

I simply wanted to repeatedly display the point that if such evidence existed, it would be easy to make it available here. And I still think that's true.

I don't think David is as subtle or strategic as you seem to think he is. Note that, even after saying the evidence does not exist, he insinuated that the only reason he (or "the Readers") had not provided it was fear of being targeted by the authorities.

The real point here is that, notwithstanding all the legal citations and arguments, David is talking about something that exists only in his mind--termination of tax liens by invoking his "method." It's a concept, an abstraction, a pure fiction. I don't think he has really sold anyone on the idea, not even committed TPs (although I'm open to correction on that point). Accepting his arguments as true and looking for what would naturally result from them--concrete evidence--is one way of making it clear that the lien termination concept is imaginary.

[Joey Smith]

David's theories work great on Planet Merrill, but they are laughed at on Planet Earth. As many others have pointed out, David has never had any success with any of his theories, never at any time.

[David Merrill]

Well, here we are the next morning, and still no one, including David, has stepped forward with evidence of a terminated tax lien that has survived the applicable statute of limitations.

For somebody calling himself Grammarian that sentence is quite contradictory. And you keep repeating it over and over (insanity).

The people who have terminated tax liens have no concerns about statutes of limitations. And I especially enjoy your inference to statutes when the whole point you Quatlosers assert with your denial about JRB's and Prof's admissions liens are inherently filed, is that the IRS can simply think "Lien" and come take stuff.

I will give you an example. I am at a coffee shop now on a Pocket PC so maybe Demosthenes or somebody can link to a case docket for James H. Ayers (James Harlan) back in mid-1995. Enough to know that was over a NFTL. Then look in the El Paso County clerk and recorder's website for that NFTL. It is not there! Then of course look for NFTLs on Smith and Davis prior to that and see they are still there.*

You keep asking me to show you evidence of things that are not there anymore and justify the question with sophistry about statute of limitations. I think it is easy enough for the Readers to see what you are doing.




Regards,

David Merrill.


* It is not mere laziness on the IRS agent's part to release the lien and correct the indexing. If it effects a sale the taxpayer is conditioned to think he must call the IRS, who will likely update address information and misfile another Personal Property NFTL!

P.S.

He's said he can't show you anyone who got the lien terminated because they don't exist.

Thanks for that sophistry Silversopp. That is a good indication to the Readers that is all you got.

[grammarian44]

David, unfortunately I was unable to book a flight to El Paso to follow up on your recommendation. And if I did, the only thing I would find would be, well, nothing.

I'm sure that, in all of your study and careful attention to tax liens, you would have made at least one copy of a relevant piece of evidence of some sort--any sort--to document the success of your method. Surely a careful researcher such as you would have done so, if your methods were as successful as you repeatedly claim them to be.

But, since this thread is about to close, I have to give up.

Oh well.

You had your chance.

You remarked several postings ago that the purpose of Quatloos has changed over the years. I believe its purpose has always been to expose tax schemes, scams, and frauds.

Consider your fraud exposed.