Hal Turner's criminal trial

[Demosthenes]

As some of you may recall, Turner is on trial for posting death threats on three federal appellate judges last year. The prosecution put all three of those judges on the stand today. Fascinating stuff, especially when the dumb dumb defense attorney tried to argue constitutional law with Easterbrook.

[LPC]

the dumb dumb defense attorney tried to argue constitutional law with Easterbrook.

I would have paid to watch that.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Are you covering the trial, Demo?

[Cpt Banjo]

What was the relevance of constitutional law to Easterbrook's testimony?

[webhick]

I'm going to go grab some din din

If he's any good, be sure to send him my way.

[Unidyne]

Turner also has a bad habit of stretching the truth, or even kneading it into something else.

Back in 2007, he was peddling images of something he called the "Amero Coin" which would be the new currency of the North American Union. A bit of digging found the "coins" to be non-numismatic medallions made by Designs Computer, a company run by artist Daniel Carr.

Then he showed off what were supposedly "Amero Banknotes" which proved to be nothing but an elaborate work of artistic commentary (the backs of the "Ameros" were commentaries on global economics) by someone who goes by the name "aleatorysort".

Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero#Amero_coins

[Pottapaug1938]

As some of you may recall, Turner is on trial for posting death threats on three federal appellate judges last year. The prosecution put all three of those judges on the stand today. Fascinating stuff, especially when the dumb dumb defense attorney tried to argue constitutional law with Easterbrook.

It turns out that I know one of his other targets. The Superintendent of Schools in Lexington, Massachusetts, Paul B. Ash, was the subject of one of Turner's "force and violence" orders for allegedly trying to indoctrinate Lexington schoolchildren into "deadly, disease-ridden sodomite lifestyles", when all that he did was introduce a new curriculum which was friendly to gay/lesbian issues. Paul Ash was two years ahead of me in high school, and his wife is a classmate of mine. In a battle of wits between Paul and Hal -- Hal would be completely unarmed, and would be forced to resort to bluster and ranting because otherwise, he'd be shown up for the slimeball he is.

[wserra]

From the Times account in today's paper:

In a strategy that seemed to surprise many in the courtroom, one lawyer, Michael Orozco, appeared to try to reargue the merits of the underlying gun rights case the judges had ruled on, which coincidentally was argued on appeal before the United States Supreme Court on Tuesday.

“If it’s overturned,” Mr. Orozco asked, “doesn’t that make Hal Turner correct?”

Judge Easterbrook made a blistering response: “This blog post says any judge who decides a case incorrectly is supposed to be assassinated. That is not the way the system works.”

I don't know the guy (and probably wouldn't admit it if I did).

[Pottapaug1938]

Here's a link to a former Boston radio personality who is about as far away from the gutter-trash Turner as one could get:

http://www.massbroadcastershof.org/hof_ ... rudnoy.htm

Brudnoy did have his faults; but his respect was yours to forfeit; and while he did not suffer fools for very long, he would listen to what you had to say if it was at all worthwhile.

[wserra]

Turner has been on the stand for two days; he is trying "Ah, I didn't really mean it", A/K/A the "kill, shmill defense". This one doesn't have a record of huge successes.

And the cross should have been fun. The AUSA confronted Turner with such things as his comment that he would be “honored” to take credit for the murder of the family of a federal judge; that he “intend(s) to incite revenge, vicious, brutal, savage revenge with malice aforethought”; and that after posting the home address of a NJ state judge, he wrote that his followers included members of the Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations and Nazis, wishing the judge “Good luck in life, however long that lasts now that people know where to find you”.

I think the govt got it right this time. Bye, Hal.

[Demosthenes]

I've been there for all four days of the trial but haven't been blogging.

Hal took the stand for two days, the cross was indeed brutal, and there are two defense witnesses left to go (both are FBI agents.)

If I were on the jury and had to make a decision today, I'd vote not guilty.

[wserra]

If I were on the jury and had to make a decision today, I'd vote not guilty.

Why?

[Demosthenes]

When the FBI recruited Hal as a confidential informant, he was a mini monster deep in bed with the white pride groups. When they finished with him five years later, he'd become a major monster, threatening judges on a routine basis, all while the FBI had him on payroll. They terminated his informant status, he continued his major monster activites (the ones they'd encouraged for five years), and they indicted him for it.

The FBI should be ashamed of themselves.

[jg]

When the FBI recruited Hal as a confidential informant, he was a mini monster deep in bed with the white pride groups. When they finished with him five years later, he'd become a major monster, threatening judges on a routine basis, all while the FBI had him on payroll. They terminated his informant status, he continued his major monster activites (the ones they'd encouraged for five years), and they indicted him for it.

The FBI should be ashamed of themselves.

Yes, the FBI should be ashamed of themselves; but I fail to see how the FBI conduct absolves him from any personal responsibility for his actions once he was no longer affiliated with them.

That must have been some awful great defense lawyering during the trial.

[grixit]

Agreed. He should be punished for his actions and some FBI officials should be punished for enabling him. And if they helped him avoid investigation, then they should be subject to RICO.

[David Merrill]

Turner also has a bad habit of stretching the truth, or even kneading it into something else.

Back in 2007, he was peddling images of something he called the "Amero Coin" which would be the new currency of the North American Union. A bit of digging found the "coins" to be non-numismatic medallions made by Designs Computer, a company run by artist Daniel Carr.

Then he showed off what were supposedly "Amero Banknotes" which proved to be nothing but an elaborate work of artistic commentary (the backs of the "Ameros" were commentaries on global economics) by someone who goes by the name "aleatorysort".

Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero#Amero_coins

http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1EaV_b ... OTkz&hl=en


I think where we really catch him lying is that he got the coin from a secret source in the Denver Mint! Otherwise he could have been misled?

Maybe somebody pulled a prank on him - pretending to be a source?


http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6753/amerocoin.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6093 ... bverse.jpg


Just the same, he would have been better off to check into it.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Demosthenes]

That must have been some awful great defense lawyering during the trial.

Actually, I've found the defense team kind of mediocre.

Hal was explicitly instructed over the years to post hate crap and threats on the internet. He was told by his Newark FBI handler that what he was posting (including threats against judges) was legal and useful to the FBI. The Newark FBI office paid him a considerable amount of money to spew his crap online and then turn in the IP information on any violent threats posted in his blog comments. He also attended numerous white pride meetings and rallies and reported back their plans to the Bureau.

Hal was never given permission to break the law while working as an informant, and was explictly reminded that if he broke any laws while working for the Neward FBI, he would be prosecuted. On the contrary, he was told by the FBI that was he was doing (threatening public officials and posting their personal information) was protected by the First Amendment. He quit the Newark FBI, was rehired, and then was terminated. In 2009, Hal posted the threat against Easterbrook, Bauer, and Posner (the same threat he had posted in 2007 while being paid by the FBI and while being told that what he was doing was legal.) The Marshals had a shit fit (and righteously so), the Judges had a shit fit (go, Judges) and Turner was indicted.

In fact, if it weren't for someone making a stink at the DC FBI headquarters about the damage he was doing, Turner would probably still be a paid informant for the Newark JTTF Office.

[Demosthenes]

I also think that Turner was indicted for the wrong crime. He wasn't charged with trying to incite violence, he was charged with this:

115. Influencing, impeding, or retaliating against a Federal official by threatening or injuring a family member
(1) Whoever—
(B) threatens to assault, kidnap, or murder, a United States official, a United States judge, a Federal law enforcement officer, or an official whose killing would be a crime under such section,
with intent to impede, intimidate, or interfere with such official, judge, or law enforcement officer while engaged in the performance of official duties, or with intent to retaliate against such official, judge, or law enforcement officer on account of the performance of official duties, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

Turner didn't threaten to do anything personally to the judges involved, although I think it's obvious that he was attempting to incite others to do the dirty deed for him.

HIs FBI files states repeatedly that Turner himself is harmless. He's been out on bond pending trial. The DOJ never asked the judge to seal the jurors' names or addresses, and beyond a single bailiff who sits near the clerks, there is no courtroom security. Of the fourteen criminal trials I've watched in the past four years, this one had the least security.

[David Merrill]

You describe entrapment; on two levels now; TURNER and his victims.

[wserra]

On the contrary, he was told by the FBI that was he was doing (threatening public officials and posting their personal information) was protected by the First Amendment.

Was that in 302s, or otherwise verified by the FBI?

This scenario bears remarkable similarity to the govt role in the Abdel-Rahman (the blind sheikh) case, on which I'm pretty sure I've posted before. If you lie down with dogs ....