Hal Turner's criminal trial

Demosthenes
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

wserra wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:On the contrary, he was told by the FBI that was he was doing (threatening public officials and posting their personal information) was protected by the First Amendment.
Was that in 302s, or otherwise verified by the FBI?
The FBI files are an interesting read. You can see them struggling with Turner's obvious threats and are worried that his words might incite others to act. The reports are consistently confident in that fact that Turner himself poses no threats, and state so explicitly.

Here's an excerpt from a threat assessment report from the US Capitol Police after Turner had threatened a US Senator. The capitol police contacted the FBI about their informant misbehaving.
S/A Haug [Turner's handler at the Newark FBI office] said that Turner quotes the Constitution better than most lawyers and knows where the line is and knows not to cross it. S/A Haug is continuously monitoring Turner and saud that Turner is all talk and no action. Turner is an ego maniac and loves it when police officials contact him. Turner's show is based on donations and teh more outrageous he gets, the more donations he receives.
From the same report:
The subject is of low concern at this time.
Demo.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by notorial dissent »

Demo, unfortunately, I suspect you are right. The whole thing is sleazy beyond belief, and while not the sort of thing you would like, or expect to see coming from the FBI, is apparently an all too common problem, someone's comment about fleas being all too appropriate.

It does sound very much like he was indicted and charged with the wrong offenses, and if that is the case then he probably should and will go free.

I do not agree(with them) that whether he is a credible threat or not, if he was making threats then that needs to be legally dealt with. It sounds to me as if the FBI sold themselves a bill of goods and is now trying very hard to hide from it.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

The Turner mess is one of the examples of why they try to keep undercover law enforcement undercover.
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Demosthenes
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

Other problems with the trial:

1) The DOJ is so obviously not afraid of Hal being violent they didn’t attempt to seal the jurors’ names and there’s no courtroom security visible at all.

2) The lead prosecutor is odious, and the judge has been hammering him in front of the jury for his odiousness, calling into question his professionalism (literally.) The judge is being openly hostile to the lead prosecutor, belittling him, telling him (with open disgust) to sit down and stop talking, interrupting his objections, rolling his eyes when the prosecutor speaks, and using phrases such as “May I remind you, sir, that you are an officer of the court and should behave accordingly.” The moron should have stepped aside and let second and third chair handle the case. I’ve never seen such a dysfunctional courtroom.

3) Hal was charismatic and alive on the stand. In comparison, FBI Supervisory Special Agent Amy Pickett came across as a boring automaton.

4) It looks bad that the defense is putting the Newark FBI people (Pickett and Haug) on the stand, not the prosecution. It tells the jury that the FBI is hiding their involvement, like a dog with its tail between its legs.

5) Hal’s racist rants (some of his blog posts and emails have been introduced) might be shocking to the jury, but after seeing that all three judges were lily-white old guys, they’re probably hardened enough as New Yorkers to tune the racist stuff out.
Demo.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

After a day and a half of deliberating, the jury has told the judge they're deadlocked.
Demo.
LPC
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by LPC »

Demosthenes wrote:After a day and a half of deliberating, the jury has told the judge they're deadlocked.
You're such a downer.

Seriously, I see your avatar on some threads, and I don't know if I want to go there.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

The jury gave up this afternoon and the judge declared a mistrial.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by LPC »

Is this the second mistrial?

Given that the FBI thought that the guy was harmless, maybe it's time to give up.
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Demosthenes
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

LPC wrote:Is this the second mistrial?
Yep.
Given that the FBI thought that the guy was harmless, maybe it's time to give up.
Or indict him on stuff he actually did.
Demo.
bmielke

Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by bmielke »

From the NY Times
The Brooklyn trial of Hal Turner was halted Wednesday after the judge received a series of notes from jurors saying they were hopelessly deadlocked. They had been deliberating since Monday afternoon.

A third trial was scheduled for April 12.
Bolding Added.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Judge Roy Bean »

Welcome my friends to the show that never ends . . .
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bmielke

Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by bmielke »

Judge Roy Bean wrote:Welcome my friends to the show that never ends . . .
Is Turner out on bail? Or is he in jail, I mean if he is in jail at some point it will have to end because it will get the point where time served is the only viable sentence. Unless of course the next trial is in West Palm Beach, or San Fransisco, or some where that Turner will convict because of who he is and not what he did, Or unless the FBI doesn't testify that they weren't concerned.
Demosthenes
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

bmielke wrote:
Judge Roy Bean wrote:Welcome my friends to the show that never ends . . .
Is Turner out on bail?
Yes.
Demo.
bmielke

Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by bmielke »

Demosthenes wrote:
bmielke wrote:
Judge Roy Bean wrote:Welcome my friends to the show that never ends . . .
Is Turner out on bail?
Yes.
Ah then yes I guess this might go on forever.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Demosthenes »

Looks like Turner is doing his damnedest to get retried.

http://family-of-hal-turner.blogspot.co ... orney.html
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by The Observer »

Demosthenes wrote:Looks like Turner is doing his damnedest to get retried.
Of course - it satisfies his narcissistic need to be the center of attention. He is probably counting on never being convicted so there is no real downside in his opinion.
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bmielke

Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by bmielke »

Looks like Turner is on trial again, this is number 3 (I think).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38661027
NEW YORK — A federal appeals court judge from Illinois testified Wednesday that he felt threatened by a New Jersey blogger's inflammatory Internet tirades over a ruling supporting gun control.

The rant against a three-judge panel in Chicago "was a threat of violence," Judge William Bauer told jurors at a trial in Brooklyn. "It suggested that the country would be better off if we were killed."

The death threat case against Hal Turner stems from the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in 2009 by Bauer and two other judges, Frank Easterbrook and Richard Posner, that upheld a district court decision dismissing lawsuits that challenged handgun bans in Chicago and Oak Park, Ill.
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Arthur Rubin »

Unfortunately, I can think of a few people who, if they were killed, the country would be better off. (Turner, for one.) Is that a threat?
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Dr. Caligari
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Re: Hal Turner's criminal trial

Post by Dr. Caligari »

The jury just convicted Turner, after only two hours of deliberation. Did anyone follow this trial, so they can explain why it was so easy this time?
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