The Big Bet

[Brandybuck]

In the Practical Advice For Newbies thread, I made a bet with Harvester, and Harvester has accepted!

Here are the details again:

"I Brandybuck wager that the Internal Revenue Service will still be collecting taxes from residents in the United States on the date April 1, 2011. Amount of wager to be one ounce Gold American Eagle coin, or equivalent value." If you want to participate, you publicly acknowledge this wager within one week by posting to this forum and sending me a private message. Your acknowledgment must include acceptance of the wager.

So let's get this ball rolling! I do indeed have a Gold Eagle available, and I am attaching the photo. Will Harvester show that he too is good for this bet?


As this wager will not be resolved for one year, I can understand if Harvester does not wish to deliver his stakes to a trusted third party arbiter (someone from this forum) for such a duration. But I am willing to do so if he is.

[Gregg]

I'll hold the stakes, but I don't think he'll pony up, I have little indication he's ever seen enough money to buy an Eagle in his life.

[bmielke]

I'll hold the stakes, but I don't think he'll pony up, I have little indication he's ever seen enough money to buy an Eagle in his life.

But Gregg he has over 100k in deposits and the bank is going to loan him lots of money to buy a house.

Don't you believe him?

[Nikki]

If he was so willing to make the wager then (1) he has absolutely no intention of paying when he loses or (2) he's going to nitpick the specific terms of the wager to insist that he hasn't lost.

For reference, see several instances of people promising to pay large sums of money if someone could prove certain things about the tax system.

Case #1 -- The payment was never made because the refuter wasn't able to get into the call-in radio show in time and the offer was only open while the TP was on the air.

Case #2 -- The payment was never made because the person making the offer reserved the right to determine exactly what was acceptable as refutation and established ground rules which precluded legitimate legal arguments.

[Red Cedar PM]

Unless the wager is escrowed or held by a 3rd party, I give you a .0000001% chance of collecting. If this scumbag is willing to risk jail and penalties to cheat on his taxes you really think he wouldn't try to cheat you?

[Pottapaug1938]

If he was so willing to make the wager then (1) he has absolutely no intention of paying when he loses or (2) he's going to nitpick the specific terms of the wager to insist that he hasn't lost.

For reference, see several instances of people promising to pay large sums of money if someone could prove certain things about the tax system.

Case #1 -- The payment was never made because the refuter wasn't able to get into the call-in radio show in time and the offer was only open while the TP was on the air.

Case #2 -- The payment was never made because the person making the offer reserved the right to determine exactly what was acceptable as refutation and established ground rules which precluded legitimate legal arguments.

That's why, as Red Cedar PM says, there needs to be some sort of escrow of 3rd party stakeholder, if Harvester has the guts to back up his words with his money (which I doubt) and accepts the wager. He also has to accept the wager as proposed, so that on the deadline there will be no ambiguity as to whether or not the wager has been won or lost. Fortunately, by making the wager on Quatloos, he will be publicly stating (again, if he has the guts) that the wager will remain open until the dealine (thus no problem as in #1); and the terms of the wager do not give him the sole right to determine if the wager was won or lost.

How about it, Harvester? If you win, you not only get to keep your tax money, you also get roughly $1100 worth of gold. Do you have the guts to accept the wager, or not -- or have you retreated into trolldom?

[Brandybuck]

Oh, I am fairly certain he won't honor his end of the wager. I have better odds of winning the lottery. But it will be entertaining to see his excuses.

[ASITStands]

As I see it ...

The silver coin in my pocket still says . . . . Pete Hendrickson WILL NOT be sentenced on April 19, 2010.

Then ...

Soooooo, when will he be sentenced?

After which ...

And I have a gold coin in my safe saying that the IRS will still be harassing folks come April 1st 2011.

To which ...

OK, you're on BrandyB [handshake].

And, since some want more specificity regarding the fate of Pete Hendrickson; my prediction is:

he will never be sentenced.

Readers will carefully note the difference between the silver coin in 'Harvester's' pocket [which is likely a Liberty Dollar with little value] and the gold coin in 'Brandybuck's'

Do we have a fair exchange yet? Is there an equal value between the two coins?

Sad to say, "I don't think we're talking about the same thing!" 'Harvester' should pay close attention, because I'm giving him an "out" to the bet, so he doesn't have "egg on his face."

Then ...

Here is my formal wager, for all to witness: "I Brandybuck wager that the Internal Revenue Service will still be collecting taxes from residents in the United States on the date April 1, 2011. Amount of wager to be one ounce Gold American Eagle coin, or equivalent value." If you want to participate, you publicly acknowledge this wager within one week by posting to this forum and sending me a private message. Your acknowledgment must include acceptance of the wager.

After which ...

Brandy, calm down. I accept your wager as stipulated. The Hendrickson 'never' references a separate wager I have with Fampspear.

"I accept your wager as stipulated" but does that mean it's a gold or silver coin? Most readers would say it's a gold coin, but there's still doubt in my mind until 'Harvester' confirms it.

Chicken! You know very well the IRS will still be collecting taxes from folks on April 1, 2011. Put up the gold coin! Put your money where your mouth is, or learn a little humility.

[LPC]

For reference, see several instances of people promising to pay large sums of money if someone could prove certain things about the tax system.

Case #1 -- The payment was never made because the refuter wasn't able to get into the call-in radio show in time and the offer was only open while the TP was on the air.

That would be Newman v. Schiff, 778 F.2d 460 (8th Cir. 1985).

Case #2 -- The payment was never made because the person making the offer reserved the right to determine exactly what was acceptable as refutation and established ground rules which precluded legitimate legal arguments.

Sounds like Walder v. Conklin, Case No. 01-CV-1038-B (U.S.D.C. Wyo. 12/13/2001).

[Nikki]

Correct as usual, King Friday.

Thank you.

[Famspear]

Harvester wrote:

The Hendrickson 'never' references a separate wager I have with Fampspear.

It's "Famspear," not "Fampspear."

As I recall, Harvester's putative attempt to enter a wager arrangement with me involved his prediction about Hendrickson being sentenced, or not being sentenced. Technically, however, Harvester doesn't have a binding wager with me, since I've neither agreed to any wager nor provided any promise of consideration to Harvester in the event he should "win." Typical of tax protester types, he doesn't understand contract law any better than he understands tax law.

Since Harvester's prediction is that Hendrickson will never be sentenced, it's lucky for Harvester that he doesn't have a binding contract with me -- since he would probably lose his "bet"!

Sounds like he's a bit rattled this week end.

[Harvester]

Well, glad to see I'm such a source of excitement & entertainment for y'all. Forgive my lack of timely response; unlike some other Quatlosers, I have a life beyond the 'net and have been celebrating Easter! I've accepted the bet; my word is my bond. Here's my gold coin, a 2008 1oz gold Buffalo (Eagles a little too well hidden at the moment).



Famspire, I proffered to you, 'Larry Williams' in another venue, a silver coin if Pete Hendrickson is actually sentenced on 4/19/2010. That offer is still valid, even though you didn't offer me anything (put yer $ where yer mouth is). So I should probably not refer to it as a wager, as technically it's not.

[Famspear]

Famspire, I proffered to you, 'Larry Williams' in another venue, a silver coin if Pete Hendrickson is actually sentenced on 4/19/2010. That offer is still valid, even though you didn't offer me anything (put yer $ where yer mouth is). So I should probably not refer to it as a wager, as technically it's not.

Correct. And it's "Famspear," not "Famspire." (I wonder whether this could turn into a running joke of sorts......)

I don't need to "put my money where my mouth is." I have not made a prediction about Hendrickson's sentencing, and I haven't really contradicted your prediction either. In other words, I haven't "put my mouth" anywhere close to where you apparently think my mouth "is". Unlike you, I'm careful about where I put my mouth.

[bmielke]

Harvester is this really your coin? I normally wouldn't doubt someone who posts here, except the backdrop has the seal of the clerk of El Paso County CO, and everyone knows EP County CO = SFBFKADMVP.

ETA:Bolding

[.]

everyone knows EP County CO = SFBFKADMVP.

Not to mention the Van Peltian thumbprint.

[Brandybuck]

Well, glad to see I'm such a source of excitement & entertainment for y'all. Forgive my lack of timely response; unlike some other Quatlosers, I have a life beyond the 'net and have been celebrating Easter! I've accepted the bet; my word is my bond. Here's my gold coin, a 2008 1oz gold Buffalo (Eagles a little too well hidden at the moment).

A Buffalo is just fine. Thank you for putting up. You have already done better than anyone else I have ever offered such a wager to. Shall we choose a person to hold the stakes? Gregg has already offered.

[Noah]

Well, glad to see I'm such a source of excitement & entertainment for y'all. Forgive my lack of timely response; unlike some other Quatlosers, I have a life beyond the 'net and have been celebrating Easter! I've accepted the bet; my word is my bond. Here's my gold coin, a 2008 1oz gold Buffalo (Eagles a little too well hidden at the moment).

A Buffalo is just fine. Thank you for putting up. You have already done better than anyone else I have ever offered such a wager to. Shall we choose a person to hold the stakes? Gregg has already offered.

Brandybuck I believe you have lost already unless the Treasury Department can reorganize by the deadline.

If I was a gambling man I would take the bet also....a sure thing does not overide the fact that it is still gambling...

I would suggest that a Federal Judge should hold the stakes since the winner will be determined as a matter of law.

Just my opinion.

[webhick]

Harvester is this really your coin? I normally wouldn't doubt someone who posts here, except the backdrop has the seal of the clerk of El Paso County CO, and everyone knows EP County CO = SFBFKADMVP.

The forum cuts off the right half of the image. I'm linking to the image directly so people can see the full imagel: http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/439/buffalo2008.jpg. I should note that it talks about lawful money, and (unless I"m reading it wrong, which is possible considering how long I've had this head cold) it looks like the gold coin in question may have been used to pay some state fees (at least it's the only explanation I can think of as to why they'd photocopy the coin with a letter saying they've paid something).

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

Looks like they accepted the coin for payment at face value of $50. Which of course is not it's real value. But the weird menorahs and stamped fingerprint add to the suspicion.

[bmielke]

Looks like they accepted the coin for payment at face value of $50. Which of course is not it's real value. But the weird menorahs and stamped fingerprint add to the suspicion.

Also strange is that while it certainly looks like a photocopy it looks like a color photocopy of a black and white photocopied letter, the notary stamp should be some other color than black.