Genius at work?

[Thule]

oh yeah, since Fambozo likes it so much, STAND TALL WARRIORS! We're winning!

vic·to·ry
n. pl. vic·to·ries
1. Jail
2. Penalties
3. Poverty

Onwards, cretin soldiers!

[The Operative]

Ha! At least I'm fighting FOR something.

If you say so.

For liberty, for the rule-of-law.

You are not fighting for liberty and you are definitely not fighting for the rule-of-law. You do not understand either of those concepts.

For the restoration of our great nation in the face of all the Fabian/NWO/bankster Illuminati elite who've been quietly taking it over.

Your idea of how this nation is supposed to be has NEVER existed. You do not know history, the Constitution, or how the government is structured.

Yet all you've got is ridicule and "if you don't consider your paycheck as income you're GOING TO JAIL!" I'm sorry y'all don't realize you're slaves. I'm telling ya, you can move off the plantation, keep your money, and not even be noticed by the IRS. I know, because I've done it.
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/pol/1747957000.html

We have provided court case after court case that shows you are wrong. Under the system setup under the Constitution, if the courts say you are wrong, then you are wrong. BTW, I'm sorry that you don't realize you are an idiot.

oh yeah, since Fambozo likes it so much, STAND TALL WARRIORS! We're winning!

[Famspear]

.....For liberty, for the rule-of-law.....Fabian/NWO/bankster Illuminati elite.......slaves........move off the plantation.......STAND TALL WARRIORS! We're winning!

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Don't you have some nice toys to play with? Or would you like to look at a book? One with nice pictures?

[Gregg]

Oh, you're welcome anytime Famspaire. Mind telling us once again why we need to pay our labor to corrupt politicians and then used to bailout Wall Street banksters (and now Greece) in the absence of any statutes binding on we the sovereign people of America?

Anything else you'd like me to share?

"pay our labor"?

"absence of any statutes"?

"we the sovereign people"?

Don't you have a nice video game you can play?

oops, no oppose-able thumbs

[Harvester]

Interesting, none of you state what you're FOR. Oh that's right, you can't say it publicly. Well allow me . . you're FOR the scam. You're for keeping it going, denying it's a scam, and for saying the courts agree. And by refusing to take a stand against tyranny, you are, by default, FOR the globalist/socialist takeover of this country. 230 years ago, you'd all be Loyalists despite increasing British oppression. Look at Harvester, he fancies himself a King! Not paying the Stamp Tax and tossing tea overboard, what ho, he'll be hanging from the gallows soon.

Yes, we are winning. And the signs are all around you.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_primary_rdp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/aarp.asp
http://www.wearechange.org/?p=1604http: ... rg/?p=1604

[The Operative]

Interesting, none of you state what you're FOR.

You want to know what I am for? Fine. In no particular order...I am for the Constitution. I am for the Country as a whole. I am for our democratic way of life. I am for following the law. I am for living a comfortable, happy existence in my two homes. I am for punishing those who do not follow the law. I am for a lower level of U.S. Government debt. I am for an independent organization to control the money supply and not the political idiots in Congress. I am for a smaller government. I am for a fix to the health care and health insurance problems in the U.S. (The new health care law is NOT it). I am for a fix to Social Security and Medicare. I am for a reasonable solution to reduce illegal immigration. I am for a strong U.S. military, though I am also for having our allies do more to help police the world.

Oh that's right, you can't say it publicly.

I just did.

Well allow me . . you're FOR the scam. You're for keeping it going, denying it's a scam, and for saying the courts agree.

The only one here claiming to follow a scam is you Harvey.

And by refusing to take a stand against tyranny, you are, by default, FOR the globalist/socialist takeover of this country.

Nonsense. You do not know what tyranny is.

230 years ago, you'd all be Loyalists despite increasing British oppression. Look at Harvester, he fancies himself a King! Not paying the Stamp Tax and tossing tea overboard, what ho, he'll be hanging from the gallows soon.

Typical tax protester nonsense. You want to compare yourself to the founders and those who fought the revolution, but you simply do not have a clue.

Yes, we are winning. And the signs are all around you.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_primary_rdp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/aarp.asp
http://www.wearechange.org/?p=1604http: ... rg/?p=1604

Nonsense. I guarantee that many of the people winning primaries against incumbent politicians do not support half of what you claim to and would probably think you are delusional idiot.

[Harvester]

Well, thanks for that. I'm sincere here and I can see you two are too. On most of these points/issues we agree. For the Constitution, the rule of law, for smaller govt, for freedom.

But no, I'm not saying you're against all that because you pay taxes. Hell I paid 'em for years too. Why? Cause I didn't know I didn't have to! You must at least allow for the remote possibility that someone, something, has gotten to someone with a govt position. And that once good govt employee who did his/her best, treated everyone fairly, may have been co-opted? Or possibly bribed or threatened? Is that possible? And if that rogue element has virtually unlimited funds to work with, and a very long timetable, how much damage can he do? Could he pull the wool over your eyes? And with many of his agents working together, deceive most of the populace?

No, I don't follow a scam; I have utmost respect for the law. My point is .. WE'VE ALL BEEN SCAMMED, by men in high places. My premise is that there's a huge amount of fraud & deception taking place, so much that I probably don't know the half of it. And I do think certain posters here are in on the scam; purposely posting to divert you away from the truth.

The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
~ Henry Kissinger, NY Times, Oct. 28, 1973

Consent, the Primary Victory
A silent weapon system operates upon data obtained from a docile public by legal (but not always lawful) force. Much information is made available to silent weapon systems programmers through the Internal Revenue Service.

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/

[grixit]

The group as a whole may be right of center, but i personally am a diehard liberal. What am i for? Personal freedom, the importance of the individual, civil rights. I don't like taxes or bureaucracy. I don't like stopping at red lights either.

Thing is, people have to live with people. So they form communities. And communities need rules. A red light allows drivers on both streets to exercise the right to go through the same intersection by keeping them from trying to do so at the same time. The more interaction, the more rules. They become laws. And of course you get government. And it has to be paid for, so you get taxes. Now a lot of rules are unfair, a lot of laws are unjust, a lot of government is arbitrary and oppressive-- and a lot of taxes are harsh and unreasonable. So there's also a lot of opposition, a lot of people working to expand freedom and eliminate wrongful laws.

But unlike your lot, that opposition is real, not just a lot of exercises in creative semantics.


** Oh, btw, there is one way to achieve unlimited freedom for the individual: you just don't have any other individuals whose rights/interests/wants/hates/etc might intersect. Those who do so are called hermits or castaways.

[Nikki]

You must at least allow for the remote possibility that someone, something, has gotten to someone with a govt position. And that once good govt employee who did his/her best, treated everyone fairly, may have been co-opted? Or possibly bribed or threatened? Is that possible? And if that rogue element has virtually unlimited funds to work with, and a very long timetable, how much damage can he do? Could he pull the wool over your eyes? And with many of his agents working together, deceive most of the populace?

No, I don't follow a scam; I have utmost respect for the law. My point is .. WE'VE ALL BEEN SCAMMED, by men in high places. My premise is that there's a huge amount of fraud & deception taking place, so much that I probably don't know the half of it. And I do think certain posters here are in on the scam; purposely posting to divert you away from the truth.

Again, a couple of simple questions:

Do people like Gates and Buffet have anything to gain from the income tax system? Do they derive any benefit from it? Wouldn't it be better for then to not have to pay millions of dollars in taxes -- both personal and business -- every year?

With all the resources they have, why haven't their highly-paid legal departments found the well-publicized truth behind the scam and taken advantage of it?

Also, why hasn't the federal government recognized that there's this massive loophole in the entire tax system and simply passed a few laws correcting it?

The simple answer to all of the above is that you and your gurus and your Internet sources are totally wrong.

But you'll never believe that because you can't deal with such a direct challange to your fantasy land.

[Omne]

And by refusing to take a stand against tyranny, you are, by default, FOR the globalist/socialist takeover of this country.

You wouldn't know tyranny if it crawled up and bit you in the ass. I've spent a lot of time in Russia over the years, it gives you a different perspective on what tyranny really is. The only reason that protesters are able to keep spouting this drivel is because we DON'T live under a tyrannical form of government.

The best proof that you're wrong is the simple observation that you are still here.

[Famspear]

And by refusing to take a stand against tyranny, you are, by default, FOR the globalist/socialist takeover of this country.

You wouldn't know tyranny if it crawled up and bit you in the ass.

Tyranny
Slavery
Socialist
Communist
Freedom
Patriot
Warrior
Tax honesty

Law

Harvester and his ilk use these kinds of words repeatedly. And, based on the way they use these words, they definitely do not know what these words mean.

[Nikki]

Wrong, wrong, wrong

They know exactly what they mean. They usually even provide links to the definitions at caterpillar.carroll.com.

[LDE]

Harvester:

See the link I posted on your "hyperinflation" thread. An actual socialist would oppose the power of big banks as much as you do.

Democratic socialist governments such as those in western Europe have approximately the same levels of liberty as we do here. They have little in common with the "corporate state" (a concept that came from Mussolini).

Your simplistic view of our society sees too much power in the hands of big capital, yet you also want to shrink the government. With a smaller government, who will regulate and control big capital?

As far as I can make sense of it, your talk of government employees being corrupted, with enormous resources at their disposal, seems to refer to the Fed. I thought you claimed the Fed was a private corporation over which the government has no control. Which is it?

Economic historians view the Dark Ages as a period when the ability of governments to tax production in Western Europe spiraled downward. The result was real tyranny (early feudalism, a low point in human freedom), dysfunctional courts (a real decline in the quality of justice, which is expensive), and all around violence and poverty. Withdrawing economically from society and hiding from the tax man is not a warrior's blow for freedom. It's like turning yourself into a serf.

I suggest you respond to the questions posed to you rather than posting a new irrelevancy. Otherwise you're just trolling.

[LDE]

Oh, and the Greek debt situation, which you think will bring down the euro (not gonna happen, but that's a separate issue) is the result of people doing exactly what you advocate: refusing to pay the taxes they owe, knowing that if mass numbers of people all fail to pay the government can't prosecute them all. Now they're facing massive unemployment and an end to their cushy retirement system. Your idea of a paradise, maybe, not mine.

Then there's Pakistan, where some three-fourths of taxes go uncollected. As a result, the public school system hardly exists anymore. Instead there are Saudi-funded madrassas where students are schooled in extreme Islamism and some in terrorism. How's that working out for you?

[Harvester]

Omne, I'll grant that we don't have the tyranny of Russia. But, is America moving towards greater freedom, or greater tyranny?

Do people like Gates and Buffet have anything to gain from the income tax system? Do they derive any benefit from it?

without going into what our taxes actually pay for, or how the income tax is not necessary to fund govt (like our first 160 yrs) -- Very little.

Wouldn't it be better for them to not have to pay millions of dollars in taxes -- both personal and business -- every year?

Yes.

With all the resources they have, why haven't their highly-paid legal departments found the well-publicized truth behind the scam and taken advantage of it?

Don't know, but that's why I'm here, spreading the good news! The Income Tax is (largely) a SCAM people! I'm not privy to their respective tax situations, but I do know they're "well to do." They could always arrange their affairs similar to Rockefeller who paid no taxes as he had only "income from a foreign trust." Also, there's the "notariety /big fish" issue. Let's say they did read Cracking the Code and discovered the truth and applied it. The Bankster/DOJ/IRS realizes much is at stake if word that ever got that "Buffet pays no taxes." As such, these people would be HUGE targets for prosecution, albeit misapplied prosecution because they must resort to shenanigans to get it - witness Snipes, Sherry Jackson, Hendrickson, et al. Judge says, "for the issue at hand I instruct you that employee means xyz, and no, you can't see the law. You little people wouldn't understand it." The jury doesn't pursue it, they don't know it's a scam and bingo, convicted by their own countrymen!

Also, why hasn't the federal government recognized that there's this massive loophole in the entire tax system and simply passed a few laws correcting it?

It's not a loophole Nikki, it's fundamental law, it's a disability of the Constitution. The general government cannot tax directly (capitation) without apportionment. And don't believe the liars who say the 16th Amendment changed all that - Supreme Court says it created no new tax or power of taxation.

The simple answer to all of the above is that you and your gurus and your Internet sources are totally wrong.

Nope, you are. But that's OK. You people are ignorant sheeple, I once was, had no idea of the MASSIVE deception, fraud & trickery now taking place in government. Soon, it will all be revealed.

[Demosthenes]

not necessary to fund govt (like our first 160 yrs)

The first income tax was passed into law during the civil law. Check your math.

The 1913 income tax replaced a god-awful system of tariffs. Do you honestly believe the tariff system was preferable, or are you simply ignorant of the history of US taxes?

[Famspear]

You people are ignorant sheeple, I once was, had no idea of the MASSIVE deception, fraud & trickery now taking place in government. Soon, it will all be revealed.

No. We know what we are talking about.

You don't.

Your purported belief in a "massive deception, fraud & trickery" is delusional.

And, no, it will not all "soon be revealed." There is nothing to be "revealed" about the legal status of the U.S. federal income tax. You people always claim to think that something momentous is juuuuuusssssstt on the verge of being "revealed." Any day now. It's coming. Wait for it.

And it never happens. And it never will.

The term "sheeple" is another term I would avoid using if I were you, Harvester.

[Omne]

Omne, I'll grant that we don't have the tyranny of Russia. But, is America moving towards greater freedom, or greater tyranny?

I would honestly say greater freedom at the social level. That's one reason we have so much unrest going on. Most people like structure and do better in that environment. Remove the structure and you get unease. Go back 50 years and people had a better idea of what was going to come next, life was, in many ways, more predictable. These days it's not nearly as well defined and that scares a lot of people.

If you look closely at the political/social results of what the protesters espouse and reduce it to concrete terms it looks a lot more rigid and a lot less free than what we have now. It would be completely tyrannical but they would be in charge, which seems fine to them. They call for the death or imprisonment of those that disagree with them and they are completely incapable of seeing the hypocrisy of it all.

You can't go back and restore the past, or the distorted memory of it, nor should it be restored. All life, including societies, grow, change and evolve. Mistakes get made and bad changes sometimes get included but the only direction is forward and humans will survive regardless.

[LDE]

Note that Harvester didn't answer a single one of my questions.

Here's one more attempt to have a dialog with you, Harv, and then I'm through. You claim that people like you, who don't pay taxes, are free, and those who do are slaves. Consider one of my friends, who made enough money as a high-tech CEO to retire at 51. He sends his kids to the best schools, owns a beautiful faux Victorian in one of the nicest parts of San Francisco, and gets to spend all the time he wants to with his wife and kids. He travels several times a year, when he feels like it, including (recently) three weeks biking around Japan, golf in Scotland, and a week at Burning Man. He says he pays a lot of money in taxes.

If he's your idea of a "slave," I don't want to be free. What's he free not to do, other than evade taxes?

Now, my friend has a law degree from Northwestern, plus a year in Europe studying international law. He's practiced in Japan and represented a firm in Brussels. He graduated with honors with a double major in math and philosophy from what was then the third most academically rigorous undergraduate college in the U.S. Yet somehow he hasn't figured out how not to pay taxes. Are you really going to tell me he's an "idiot"? A "sheeple"?

Here's the problem with your purported political movement, Harvester. People who really follow politics will be familiar with statements like these:
Kerry's policies should favor the Reagan Democrats, but so far he hasn't caught fire with them.
The netroots have been disappointed with Obama on a number of issues, but they're grudgingly accepting of the Kagan nomination.
Bill Clinton remains highly popular among soccer moms.

Each of the phrases in bold is an identifiable faction in American politics. Success depends on uniting enough factions behind something you want to see happen (in your case, abolishing the income tax) to enact it.

But when you tell me you represent "real Americans" or "patriots," or "those who aren't sheeple," these are meaningless constituencies. I know what my mental picture is of your type, and it's one I'm instinctively repelled by. Your rhetoric looks like political speech, but it's devoid of any real political content, unlike the examples I just gave.

This, by the way, is why Sarah Palin gets such high negative numbers, despite the devotion of her fans. It's not that she's conservative—as Alaska governor, she was a liberal-spending budget buster who stuck it taxwise to Big Oil—or Christian. It's that her nearly every utterance has no content in the sense of determining who she represents ("real Americans") or what her policies would be ("take back America").

Your supposed movement has no leaders left who haven't done time, no coherent demographic faction, no program other than fantasies (abolish taxation, go back to the gold standard, get ready for economic doom) and rhetoric that contradicts itself when it isn't strictly meaningless. You're wasting a lot of time and perhaps risking doing time for a chimera.

[wserra]

is America moving towards greater freedom, or greater tyranny?

Who thinks that Harvey is a white male?