SCAM.COM

[ChrisDoyle]

Tom, I've never had a problem with anyone holding anti MLM views, I'd be stupid to think that everyone would be pro MLM. If someone says to me ''I realise there are good, legal and ethical MLMs, and there are scams masquerading as MLMs, but I just dont like the business'', then I can fully respect that.

As for the swearing, there are many on there who use the f-word, the c-word, the w-word and more (put it out there baby does it in almost every post). These are all sexual words, and I dont see anyone banned for it. I started a thread stating this, and I was immediately banned.

As for the font size, no I wasnt doing it to annoy someone, I didnt even realise there was a maximum font size. Personally if I was a mod in that case I would have sent a pm and said ''do you realise you are using a font size that is too large?'' If I had ignored that, then ban me. But I really think the aim over there is to look for any excuse to ban someone who is pro MLM, even going so far as to keep winding them up by calling them scammers, criminals etc, until they answer back a bit strongly, then ban them. Just my personal opinion.

You may well be right about sojustask..... hopefully Len can rein her in a bit.

[No_Moron_Here]

Tom, I've never had a problem with anyone holding anti MLM views, I'd be stupid to think that everyone would be pro MLM. If someone says to me ''I realise there are good, legal and ethical MLMs, and there are scams masquerading as MLMs, but I just dont like the business'', then I can fully respect that.

As for the swearing, there are many on there who use the f-word, the c-word, the w-word and more (put it out there baby does it in almost every post). These are all sexual words, and I dont see anyone banned for it. I started a thread stating this, and I was immediately banned.

As for the font size, no I wasnt doing it to annoy someone, I didnt even realise there was a maximum font size. Personally if I was a mod in that case I would have sent a pm and said ''do you realise you are using a font size that is too large?'' If I had ignored that, then ban me. But I really think the aim over there is to look for any excuse to ban someone who is pro MLM, even going so far as to keep winding them up by calling them scammers, criminals etc, until they answer back a bit strongly, then ban them. Just my personal opinion.

You may well be right about sojustask..... hopefully Len can rein her in a bit.

Chris, Chris, Chris, duh Chris! You still did NOT answer my question regarding SBM's viewpoints on MLMs affecting your posts or any others. Common problem with you!

I explained to you about the word that was used. Several words are blocked out on the site but not many. The political forum is a cesspool and became one under Stephanie's reign. Go look at it. The "F" word is in many titles. That is not permitted on ANY of the other boards on scam.com. The "C" word would be removed also on the other boards. As stated before, sexual orientation insults are not permitted ANYWHERE on any of the forums there and it was used and that is why you know who was banned. Would you like me to show you the post in a PM? You were insulted constantly and dished them out readily yourself, however I don't recall ever seeing your sexual preference/orientation questioned nor did you do so. I cannot comment on why you were banned this time around since I had quit and it wasn't discussed with me. As with the ban for the font size, I wasn't involved. And yes, you should have been given a warning in a PM but I'm sure you were given an infraction, right? You ignored it, right? I don't know for sure, I'm asking but really don't care since it's done with and it's over. I can't change it unless there is some sort of machine that will take me back in time. I'm sure there is some MLM promoting one. Links please.

Len reining in Sojustask? Hey, he couldn't rein in that stubborn old nag with a horse bridle and a cattle prod. Although I'm sure one would fit, she'll be bucking till he's been bronco kicked into unconsciousness.

Personal advice for you. When your ban is lifted, tread very carefully over there. Very. I don't think you'll get one more chance and there is nothing anyone can do about that.

[ChrisDoyle]

I wont be there too much, I'm away from the internet a lot nowadays. Tonight is an exception as my wife is on a girls night out, and I'm sitting in bored watching some Michael Moore film about capitalism. Now if guys want real scams watch that film! (if you can stand the boredom)

[Arthur Rubin]

I wont be there too much, I'm away from the internet a lot nowadays. Tonight is an exception as my wife is on a girls night out, and I'm sitting in bored watching some Michael Moore film about capitalism. Now if guys want real scams watch that film! (if you can stand the boredom)

Which scams? Michael Moore's or the ones he describes?

[James R]

Doc,

What is the name of the Yahoo finance group?

[Doc Bunkum]

Doc,

What is the name of the Yahoo finance group?

Click on the link in my post - the headline is the URL.

Well, to save you looking, here is the link again:

Our beloved Len Clements given Adminstrator rights on Scam.com

[Mike!]

Hello kids! Seems a cat left a big fat smelly steamer in my regular sandbox, mind if I play over here till it's cleaned up?

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hello kids! Seems a cat left a big fat smelly steamer in my regular sandbox, mind if I play over here till it's cleaned up?

As a matter of fact, many of us do.

If this keeps going in the direction it appears, it's going into the pissing contest bucket.

[wserra]

mind if I play over here till it's cleaned up?

This isn't a litter box. If you have something to contribute other than what goes in one - well, welcome to Quatloos.

[Mike!]

mind if I play over here till it's cleaned up?

This isn't a litter box. If you have something to contribute other than what goes in one - well, welcome to Quatloos.

Never said it was, I said "sandbox". You know, like a childrens play area. Cats have a way of leaving unwanted objects in those too. Never a nice discovery, agreed? I'll try to only offer worthy comments whenever possible.

[Doc Bunkum]

By the way, I believe you are wrong about sojustask (LadyMod), she is an EX MLMer not a distributor.

If that's true, I apologize. At least she was a distributor at the same time as a scam.com mod, as I am fairly sure I recall her admitting as much.

As this thread is about SCAM.COM, and Lady Mod is a moderator there, then I think it's appropriate we take a look at Stephanie's involvement with MLM to get a better idea where she stands.

I've been involved with several MLM's over the last 20 years. I've made money with some, lost money in others.

Since it all involves sales, I tend to look at the products, what I'll make off them and decide if the market where I'm at will sustain it as a business.

When I looked for people to partner with I looked for people who could sell. I could sell ice cubes to eskimos if I wanted to, but only the gourmet ice cubes, the plain don't do well with that market. The high energy ones, they do pretty good.

The last MLM I was involved in was only for the products, because I liked the products from the time I was first in the same MLM, 20 years ago. That was Amway. The only reason I became an IBO was to get the discount on my purchases and to allow my husband who wanted to try building a business from it after he had his stroke 4 years ago. I didn't want to build any downlines, I simply wasn't interested. I was already doing sales for Xerox Corporation at that time and just did not want to spend any more time selling anything.

After about 18 months, my husband decided he didn't want to be in sales anymore, LOL. Good thing too, because I was going to have to pull the plug on him, he wasn't doing anything accept listen to CD's and attend meetings. All of which would be OK if he was doing the other stuff that you have to do too. I still buy the stuff I liked to begin with, am always interested to see what is new. I shop on my friend's site.

The ONLY MLM that I didn't make money in was IGP. Oh I know, they didn't call it an MLM but it was based on downlines, that spells MLM. The information was pretty good, too pricey though, but I managed to find people interested in it. None of them got into the sales end of it, they were product only sales.

I lost a ton of money on the leads they pushed. Then I found out that the Guy who owned the lead company was the brother-in-law to Dave Struckman which explains why those leads got pushed so hard. So I dropped the pricey leads, my business partner and I found a better lead source and did better with our "cheap" leads than what the high dollar ones yielded.

MLM is not one-size-fits-all in my opinion. So it's good to shop around until you see one that interests you beyond the promises. If people are going to go into business, they should look at the business model. What is the profit margin? How do you get there? Is it recruitment based or product based? If you have a good product that you can get behind, it's not hard to find others of like mind.

Some people have what appears to be over night success. Others just make a few hundred dollars a month. Still others don't make anything, maybe breaking even or losing money. That is pretty much what you find when you start any kind of business. Go with what you know. Trust your instincts. Be yourself, don't try to be your upline, stand behind your product. Use the product and look for opportunities to share you product. And most important of all, there are a billion people in this country with a WalMart mentality. They want cheap stuff made by impoverish countries and don't mind making the Walton's richer than Midas. That's tough competition so you are going to have to look for people that see beyond that little smiley face guy and want more than a minimum wage lifestyle and will not be embarrassed to sell for themselves.

They are out there. You just got to look for them.

BTW, I support ethical MLM, even though I'm no longer in MLM. I chose a career that I just love in the medical field. However, I was able to take what I learned from being in MLM, my failures and successes and my work ethic and apply those lessons to my job. And it made me indespensible, valued, well compensated and very happy.

I think what you learn from being in an MLM, whether you succeed or fail will only help you in other areas of life as long as you learn the lessons and apply what you learn.

Lady Mod

They are out there - you just got to look for them. Bits and pieces of information, that is.

IGP (Institute of Global Prosperity)?

You didn't make any money with them you say? The information was pretty good?

Lady Mod, you should spend a little more time reading this forum!

Quatlosers Hall of Shame:

Dave Struckman, Dan Anderson & Lorenzo LaMantia a/k/a Zo LaMantia

These special-editions Quatloos commemorates those who have made a name for themselves in their particular business endeavors.

At the bottom of multi-level marketing -- a scummy business at best -- lurks Global Prosperity. The slimy-est of the slimy, Global Prosperity marks the absolute rock-bottom low of the MLM programs. There simply is no MLM program which is more of a scam, or has such a disreputable background, as Global Prosperity and its many equally-sordid spin-offs.



US Citizen Arrested in Volcan: Wanted for Fraud

Police arrested 55 year-old US citizen David Allan Struckman at his residence in Paso Ancho, Volcán, on Wednesday. At the time of his arrest Struckman was carrying a Venezuelan passport. According to a police press release, Struckman is wanted in the United States for fraud, and US authorities have been trying to catch up with him for eight years. An arrest warrant was issued back in 2004. These guys are basically lying to people, and trying to sell them "trusts" what are supposed to be hidden from the IRS. Editor's Comments: David Allen Struckman and company are a group of fraud artists and thieves who spend years telling people they could avoid paying taxes to the IRS by establishing "trusts" offshore. To make a long story short, they were lying about US tax law...

Founders & Distributors Of Evil Aussie 2 up Global Prosperity Jailed for Crimes

Three of the founders of the Institute of Global Prosperity (IGP), David Struckman, Daniel Andersen and Lorenzo Lamantia, were sentenced by U.S. District Judge Robert M. Takasugi in District Court located in Seattle to prison terms for tax crimes committed while partners in IGP, the Justice Department and Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced...

David Struckman, a former resident of Renton, Wash., was sentenced to 70 months (6 years 4 months) in prison and $2.9 million in restitution after being convicted of conspiracy to defraud the United States and tax evasion. Struckman hid out in Panama prior to his indictment in 2004. Panama deported him gleefully (he came rather unwillingly) back to the United States in January 2006.

One would think someone with even minimal intelligence wouldn't admit they were in that scam.

Maybe if you did a little more due diligence before getting involved in some scheme next time, Lady Mod, and found out who you were getting involved with, you'd save yourself a little money and a lot of effort.

That good information was only good if one was planning a nice vacation at Club Fed, I might add.

[wserra]

I split off the posts (beginning with BruceShuell's) dealing with MLMs policing themselves to a new thread. I think it's worth commenting on the issue of a moderator of an anti-scam board participating in one of the biggest scams of our time, equivalent to Madoff's in chutzpah and degree of illegality if not in overall dollars.

Doc quotes at length from this site about IGP: "There simply is no MLM program which is more of a scam, or has such a disreputable background, as Global Prosperity and its many equally-sordid spin-offs." This was true not only because (as was adjudicated several times) the business model was pure pyramid, but because what they sold was a combination of complete nonsense and outright criminality. The mind boggles at the thought of someone in charge of an anti-scam board believing that "the information was pretty good" - and this after all of the IGP leaders have been sentenced to lengthy prison terms for acting on the "pretty good" information.

Moreover, anyone with an IQ above room temperature had to know it. Here is some of what they sold. Everything from thoroughly discredited myths about the Federal Reserve to advice on committing tax evasion by hiding your money offshore, by employing bogus trusts, and more. And, if some poor schmuck bought into the scam, these guys would be more than willing to sell you more stuff to set up the evasion.

GPG/IGP et al. were scams, in both form and substance, beginning to end. The people who ran it are in jail. Draw your own conclusions about folks who have anything nice to say about it.

[MWave]

wserra,

LadyMod said the products were "pretty good". Nothing more. Equinox and Jewelway actually had great products, but both were sued by regulators and closed down (Equinox permanently) for operating an illegal pyramid scheme.

So, based on your legal interpretation, if a company is an illegal pyramid it's impossible for it to have a "pretty good" product?

This is another argument you can't win, Wes, but you're going to argue it anyway, aren't you?

Len

[wserra]

LadyMod said the products were "pretty good". Nothing more. Equinox and Jewelway actually had great products, but both were sued by regulators and closed down (Equinox permanently) for operating an illegal pyramid scheme.

So, based on your legal interpretation, if a company is an illegal pyramid it's impossible for it to have a "pretty good" product?

Why don't you read what I posted? Why don't you read what I linked to? Their "pretty good" products were clumsy primers in tax evasion. Here, take a look at the Justice Department press release on IGP co-founder Dan Anderson's guilty plea to impeding tax collection. Here's how the govt described their "pretty good" products:

the defendants formed and operated “Global Prosperity,” which received more than $50 million from sales of a “home-study” series of “wealth-building” audiotapes and compact discs, sold for $1,250; and tickets to domestic and offshore seminars, sold at prices ranging from $6,250 to $37,000 each.

The so-called “wealth building” strategies allegedly included fraudulent methods of income tax elimination, such as placing assets in purported foreign or common law trusts without giving up control of the assets and attempting to remove oneself from the jurisdiction of the United States.

As I wrote, that was their "product". Criminality for fun and profit.

This is another argument you can't win, Wes, but you're going to argue it anyway, aren't you?

[ProfHenryHiggins]

The change at Scam.com which bothers me a bit more is sojustask's addendum to the policies. Apparently, addresses of public record and company phone numbers are no longer permitted, something that irks me quite a bit since I like to apply the "name 'em and shame" technique to serial fraudsters.

And no, I'm not anti-MLM, I just don't participate in it. I am, however, extremely anti-"gifting" and anti-snake oil.

[wserra]

OK, here's what's happening: I split off the last several posts to this thread to a new one, New Management at Scam.com. It's in the Flame Wars forum not so much because it's a flame war, but because that's the best place on this board to put it. I might even participate in it. But look at the "Rules" sticky above: this is a scam board. If the owner of scam.com made John Wayne Gacy an admin, it may be wrong, but it's not a scam. I have no problem with Doc starting the thread here, and think it both remarkable and on-topic that one of the folks in charge of a supposed anti-scam board not only participated in one of the biggest scams of recent years, but still believes that its unlawful products were "pretty good".

On behalf of the board, I truly welcome the new posters, and hope they stay and contribute. I understand the annoyance. Soapboxmom is a friend. But all of this stuff about banning, deleting and Clements is not a scam. It doesn't belong in this forum.

[Skyvoyager]

Greetings... another Scam.com defector here. After 5 years and a few thousand posts there I've concluded Scam.com is no longer safe for anti-MLMers who wish to remain anonymous.

For some bizarre reason the owner (Zachary) has seen fit to give the keys to the place to Leonard W Clements.. first as a Moderator then, now, as Administrator. By doing so Clements has ready access to members' private info such as the email addresses they submitted when registering along with knowledge of everyones' IP addresses and so forth. Most disturbing is that he has complete access to everyones' private messages --everything they've ever communicated under the expectation of privacy.

Len, I believe, will have no reservations when it comes to using this priveleged information to "out" his critics and silence his enemies. He has already deleted an entire thread that was critical of him. This was an attempt to sanitize the Internet and to buttress the illusion that he holds the secret to wealth via MLM --something that was easily challenged via public records that are apparently off limits on Scam.com now.

I further believe Clements will be more than willing to assist MLM owners in doing the same for them. This newfound power over at Scam.com will give Clements --a 30 year financial failure-- a little more status among his cronies. He will continue to bully everyone who disagrees with him (as he has done everywhere else) and attempt to turn Scam.com into a pro-MLM propaganda site.

Clements fancies himself an "MLM Watchdog" and policeman of those who violate the spirit and intent of MLMing.. not to mention those who cross the line into criminality. However many people feel he has plenty of skeletons in his MLM closet himself. I have warned him before that his actions at Scam.com --a site that he completely trashed and utterly denounced prior to worming his way into a position of authority-- will not put an end to this. There are plenty of places where HIS ''watchdogs'' can express their opinions of HIM and the scammy industry he worships and enables.

[PhotoHound]

Hi All

(Moderators, please move if I posted in wrong area)

New to this forum as I just been 'Banned' from Scam.Com. Thank you SBM for referring me here. Much Appreciated.

Reason Given: You Are Not Welcomed Here
Date the ban will be lifted: NEVER

Got no response to email I sent for an explanation as I honestly didn't understand why I got banned.

Anywayz (just like Scam.Com), I am an irregular user who pops in every now and then for a 'Sticky-Beak'. In fact, after 3 years at Scam.Com, I have only posted 20-odd times.

I was in a Photomax Opportunity before realising I wasn't any good and quit.

I'm neither Pro or Anti MLM. I just enjoy reading the debates.

I'm not in any Opportunity either, just waiting for the right one I guess.

OK, thanks for reading.

Enjoy Great Things Everyone.

Blessings - Mike

[PhotoHound]

Apologies, I should have mentioned the Photomax Opportunity I quit was 3 years ago which is what initially sparked my interest in MLM and Scam.Com.

Thanks

[getupnow]

And the hits just keep on coming! Lady Mod and Len seem to be on a delusional power trip and the owner either is on a mission to change what that site is about altogether or he just couldn't care less what happens.

That being said there is an incredibly ripe opportunity to start a similar type community and peel off a large amount of traffic from their website. Got a number of url's that I have registered and have the software located to duplicate exact look and feel of their board. Now the question is do I have time to get it up and going.