Lisa wrote:Wow... so out of all the people here whining and complaining about George only Doc and I have the guts to actually ask him about it. Since I knew I wasn't likely to get an answer, I PM'd LM about it. George had a legitimate reason for faking the sale of the site and LM agreed to try and help him do this. It had nothing to do with the actual posters on the site. What it had to do with was the overwhelming amount of attorneys contacting him and threatening legal action against him. He figured if he "sold" the site that the lawyers wouldn't bother him anymore and would instead go on a manhunt for "Zac".
It's funny the answers you can get if you just bother asking. I personally don't have a big problem with this reason and can understand why someone would choose to do such a thing.
Lisa, as a mod, I checked "Zachary" out within two days of becoming a mod. It was all BS. ALL of the IPs traced right back to George. There was never a sale. Most of us mods knew this, the ones in the "loop." LM constantly referred to "Zachary" in her posts and PMs to us, the mods. I called her out on it. More than once, I might add. It was insulting to lie to us about the owner. Just goes to show you of Stephanie's character. I always had a problem with the lack of George's and Stephanie's integrity, especially regarding this issue. I could care less if George is involved in his "thousands of websites" (all porn with the exception of scam.com) but I do have a problem with deception when we were responsible to control the site.
George Dranichak can continue to attempt to bury his identity and location, the ownership of scam.com, but the records posted on the internet do not lie. He, however, does lie as witnessed in his two recent posts on scam.com claiming he not George Dranichak. Or is it George LaMonte or Zachary or NNHeadlines or Jerky LeBoeuf or Test Mod, or the multitude of other names he goes by? They're all one in the same.
And finally, if George couldn't handle the legal complaints and decided to delete threads, posts, not answer the mods when asked specific questions, then he shouldn't have accepted the responsibility of owning that website and he should have sold it. But he didn't. Now who is being scammed? Both Mumbles and myself offered to purchase the website from him. He never responded to either of us. And for the record, a lot of us asked questions. We never got any honest answers. So please don't think we were stupid and were not aware of the ownership/situation. We were.
Sojustask told the Mods in PM that sexually oriented language was not permitted, nor were constant flaming and off topic posts to be permitted. Other well run boards have reasonable guidlelines that are enforced as well. You might ruminate over the idea of using good judgment!
Soapboxmom
The link that I posted does work and the rules are plainly stated. However, you cannot be logged on to the site to read them since they're listed under "register." Log out and then use this link: http://208.86.2.42/register.php
It clearly states: "By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
See that, Kerry? Didn't think so. You're not exactly bright as witnessed by your more than immature responses.
No_Moron_Here wrote:
Lisa, as a mod, I checked "Zachary" out within two days of becoming a mod. It was all BS. ALL of the IPs traced right back to George. There was never a sale. Most of us mods knew this, the ones in the "loop." LM constantly referred to "Zachary" in her posts and PMs to us, the mods. I called her out on it. More than once, I might add. It was insulting to lie to us about the owner. Just goes to show you of Stephanie's character. I always had a problem with the lack of George's and Stephanie's integrity, especially regarding this issue. I could care less if George is involved in his "thousands of websites" (all porn with the exception of scam.com) but I do have a problem with deception when we were responsible to control the site.
George Dranichak can continue to attempt to bury his identity and location, the ownership of scam.com, but the records posted on the internet do not lie. He, however, does lie as witnessed in his two recent posts on scam.com claiming he not George Dranichak. Or is it George LaMonte or Zachary or NNHeadlines or Jerky LeBoeuf or Test Mod, or the multitude of other names he goes by? They're all one in the same.
And finally, if George couldn't handle the legal complaints and decided to delete threads, posts, not answer the mods when asked specific questions, then he shouldn't have accepted the responsibility of owning that website and he should have sold it. But he didn't. Now who is being scammed? Both Mumbles and myself offered to purchase the website from him. He never responded to either of us. And for the record, a lot of us asked questions. We never got any honest answers. So please don't think we were stupid and were not aware of the ownership/situation. We were.
I never said you were unaware, I simply pointed out that I think the reason he chose to do this was valid. To be entirely honest, if I owned scam.com I wouldn't want people to know who I am. You say you don't like being lied to, but at the same time I don't see you posting your personal information for the world to see on that site either. There are some genuine nuts that post on that site that I would never in a million years want to have personal information about myself. I would think any half sane person would feel the same way. Can you really blame George? I mean the second things started deteriorating LM's personal information was plastered up (the town in which she lives) and was quickly deleted. If you were in those shoes would you really want everyone on that site knowing who you were??
Don't equate this for me liking George. I still think he's made some horrible decisions in regards to the site and I'm not going to post there for awhile.
But LM agreed to hide George's identity for the sake of George. No one said he did a good job of it, in fact he did a pretty horrible job of it (as you pointed out). BUT she told George she'd try and help him and she did. She's not perfect, but none of us really are. That's fine and dandy if you feel like you've been lied to or cheated in some way, but I guess I just don't invest that much into a website. I've been posting there for years and I'm done for now. That being said, while I'm still pissed off... it's a website. It's not the end of the world. This is all interesting, but I don't care about George's porn ventures.
I'll keep watching things unfold because it's interesting, but I guess I'm just not that passionate about it anymore. What's done is done, stupid decisions have been made and George (and the others) will have to deal with the consequences of those decisions.
It'd be great to get some answers from Len or George... but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Oh and never in a million years do I think mumbles should own that website. He went on a banning rampage in the political forum when he was made a mod.
No_Moron_Here wrote:Furthermore, here is Lady Mod's response to the Ripoff Report which is proof positive that Stephanie knows George is the current owner.
sojustask
Posted 06-11-2010, 7:01 PM
Well, I like what George said the best,
"ONLY the IGNORANT complain"
And that kind of sums it all up.
Lady Mod
I know she's known the whole time. She told me she's known the whole time. She told me she tried to agree to hide him owning the site. But since it's clear that he really did kinda out himself I don't think she's even attempting to keep up the pretenses anymore.
The original thread reached 100 posts, so per board policy I locked it. Still, I thought interesting things were being posted, and it deserved more than auto-pruning after five days - so I moved it here, to the "Public Archives" forum. While it is not open for posting, it is available for cut-and-paste should someone wish. I also opened this thread with the final couple of posts.
Welcome to anyone new. May I invite you to post about MLMs in the appropriate forum?
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
I enjoy the humor at Urban Dictionary. Somewhat crude at times, it's generally pretty funny.
The word of the day for June 7 was "Inverse Midas".
The effect of turning everything into shit. The opposite of the Midas touch, where King Midas was said to turn everything he touched into gold.
The act of fail, to blunder, to make a snafu, or catastrophe
Reading that definition, I couldn't help but think of Lenny Clements. That guy definitely has the "Inverse Midas" touch!
No sooner does he arrive at scam.com, and the owner of the site is over at RipOffReports having to rebut a five year old post!
Not sure what Lenny did to weasel his way into an Administrator position at scam.com, but I'm sure George regrets the day he ever decided to get involved with Lenny!
First off, thanks for the accommodations wserra, they are appreciated.
As to George, not that anyone else's opinion matters to him but I'm not totally dismissive of his achievement. Sure he makes his money selling porn but there's nothing illegal about that, quite frankly I don't understand why anyone with an internet connection needs to pay for porn but there is a market and he's helping to fill it. No problem there. Scam.com is the 800 pound gorilla of anti-scam sites and George deserves some of the credit for making it so. For as easy as it is to dislike the man we have to at least acknowledge that he has done something to level the playing field against the rip current of scams that is "internet marketing."
Speaking as a nominal insider (I posted under the name Hopeful Cynic over there) I have to say his management style sucks. It never really bothered me that his moderators were nothing but magic spam removing monkeys, I got to play janitor on a forum that tried to help people and was cool with that. Nearly any buisness can take it's employees for granted and survive, but there are limits to how far they can take their customers for granted before they start looking for someone else who provides the same service. Every now and again I'd look back through what I consider some of the more "classic" threads and find names of valuable contributors who no longer post, for one reason or another they moved on from scam.com. I personally believe that thread deletions are a big part of that, my own post count is less than 400 but I estimate it should be over 1,000 if it weren't for my nearly "human divining rod" like ability to waste countless hours researching and posting to threads that George finds himself compelled to delete. (Do I sound just a wee bit bitter?)
Yea, thread deletions happen. Amusing story, about a year and a half ago George put out a general call for volunteer moderators and I never gave it a second thought. But then a 180+ page thread discussing the Ad Surf Daily ponzi scheme went *poof* and I wanted to know why. So I typed out a short list of questions for the owner, one was about the fate of the ASD thread and for some reason supposed that if I couched those questions in a "I might be interested in being a mod if you can tell me.,..." that it might be more likely to garner a reply. Well I did get a reply (a rare thing from George) but it had no answers to any of my questions, all it said was "I made you a moderator."
I did find out who demanded the ASD thread be deleted, but not from George. And I know what law firm wrote the request and for as much anger and disappointment I felt when I saw that thread was gone in retrospect I can't really blame George. I saw that same law firm SLAPP a 74 year old man living in a trailerhome on social security with a bogus nuisance lawsuit just to shut him up over the same issues they found objectionable with the ASD thread. I have little doubt that had George chosen to go to court in this matter he would have prevailed, but not until the legal fees mounted past any reasonable measure. And that was the whole point.
That being said I've seen some truly amazing thread deletions. One that sticks out was a 2 by 2 forced cycling matrix scam that didn't even pretend to have a retail product, it was a pure pyramid scheme and that's what the thread about it said. The only place on the planet the owners of that scam wanted less to find themselves than a court of law was prison, because they knew if they ever steped foot in court room, their next step would be to a prison. But they sent George some sort of threatening letter and instead of investigating the matter and recognizing just how pathetic their bluff of a legal threat really was, He folded and deleted.
I want everyone who cares about scam.com to understand that what I am about to say is not motivated by spite, anger or resentment but rather it is motivated purely by what I personally believe is in the best long term interest of what I view as the true mission of scam.com. To what ever extent that what follows continues to be an accurate description of how George runs scam.com, scam.com will fail to be what it should be. If George can not run scam.com in a manner other than what follows, he needs to either sell the site to someone else, or go back to using the domain for selling cut rate passwords to his own porn sites:
If you or anyone you know is running a scam, defrauding the public or otherwise manipulating people for your own personal fiscal gain AND there is a discussion thread exposing your chicanery on Scam.com, have no fear:
* First, invent a name for a law firm, it wont likely matter if it exists or not, until proven otherwise hiring a real attorney should not be necessary.
* Register an E-mail account with a free provider like Hotmail or GMail using the name of your newly invented law firm. (Example: BigScarryLegalFirm@hotmail.com)
*Spend no more than five minutes using Google acquainting yourself with legal terms and acquiring a feel for what a real letter from an attorney might sound like. Spell check is recommended but may not be required.
*Go to the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the main forum page at scam.com and use that form to transmit your "legal threat" to the site's owner. Be reasonable, give him a good 72 hours to delete all negative information about you from his website before he faces "spurious legal consequences" (use that exact phrase so he'll know you're serious).
*Sit back and watch every legitimate and well earned condemnation of you and your scamming cohorts disappear from what should otherwise be the best pro-consumer anti-scam website on the web.
I've already pointed out that there are legitimate reasons for why some threads are deleted, just as I've pointed out that in my opinion "legitimacy" has no earthly relation to why other threads are deleted. The fact is, in my experience, the more time and effort you spend in exposing the more byzantine and interesting aspects of a well organized crime, the greater likelihood that your efforts will be rewarded by deletion by and silence from the owner of scam.com. George has the right to be proud of the site he helped to create but he either needs to publicly take responsibility for how he runs the place or realize how irresponsible he is to each and every other person who donate their time and efforts to making his site what it could have been if it weren't for his continued actions. His silence is deafening and quite frankly, galling.
So yea, I'd be pissed that he made "MWave" an Admin but when has George ever given the community that formed around his website any reason to believe he ever gave a damn about them? You are, each and every one of you completely expendable and entirely replaceable. Don't like it? Be Gone! Len is just the dawning of a new day, he'll never admit that some of the people he's driving away are not even by his own definition, trolls. But why should he care more about a community he has openly professed to despise than the man who founded that community in the first place?
Last edited by GlimDropper on Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
GlimDropper wrote:First off, thanks for the accommodations wserra, they are appreciated.
Absolutely. We agree there. Thanks, Wes, for extending this thread.
GlimDropper wrote:As to George, not that anyone else's opinion matters to him but I'm not totally dismissive of his achievement. Sure he makes his money selling porn but there's nothing illegal about that...
Well, here we disagree. True, selling porn is not illegal. But to me, porn and prostitution is different from other vices such drinking, smoking, drugs, gambling, etc.
With those vices there isn't a victim except the person indulging. They make a conscious choice to participate.
In the case of pornography, there is a victim. The women and children being exploited. In my book, the people producing and the people distributing this material, and the people that associate with them, are the lowest form of scum breathing oxygen on this planet. IMHO.
GlimDropper wrote:I did find out who demanded the ASD thread be deleted, but not from George. And I know what law firm wrote the request and for as much anger and disappointment I felt when I saw that thread was gone in retrospect I can't really blame George. I saw that same law firm SLAPP a 74 year old man living in a trailerhome on social security with a bogus nuisance lawsuit just to shut him up over the same issues they found objectionable with the ASD thread. I have little doubt that had George chosen to go to court in this matter he would have prevailed, but not until the legal fees mounted past any reasonable measure. And that was the whole point.
Makes me wonder how many times this site has been threatened with a SLAPP and how that went for the law firm making the nuisance lawsuit!
I can see George's point, but still the guy has no testicular fortitude. Sort of like the time his buddy was getting the crap kicked out of him and George bailed out and fled the scene in a cab.
... George Dranichak was with Hammond when he was stabbed and is believed to have fled the scene in a cab while Hammond was still being attacked.
Nice to have buddies like that.
If you or anyone you know is running a scam, defrauding the public or otherwise manipulating people for your own personal fiscal gain AND there is a discussion thread exposing your chicanery on Scam.com, have no fear:
* First, invent a name for a law firm, it wont likely matter if it exists or not, until proven otherwise hiring a real attorney should not be necessary...
Now that's priceless!
Thanks for a truly wonderful candid and humorous post, Hopeful Cynic.
Without a doubt, it's the best one anybody's posted here yet (with a possible exception being a couple of mine).
Doc Bunkum wrote:
I can see George's point, but still the guy has no testicular fortitude. Sort of like the time his buddy was getting the crap kicked out of him and George bailed out and fled the scene in a cab.
... George Dranichak was with Hammond when he was stabbed and is believed to have fled the scene in a cab while Hammond was still being attacked.
Nice to have buddies like that.
It's sorta strange to find myself defending the man but come on Doc, don't stoop this low. George and a friend of his were attacked by a group of people, at least one of whom was wielding a knife. George escaped with his life and his friend was murdered and you presume to judge him for it? I'm sorry man but that's not just cold, it's fucking classless. Have you ever seen someone you care about dying? I have and even though there wasn't a damn thing I could have done about it I was left feeling guilty about not doing more to help. I can't imagine the torment George must have felt over his friends death but that's his own private issue. Using it as some sort of forum smack says a lot more about you than it does about him.
Maybe the way I worded that and the way it came across was in poor taste.
But it seems pretty bizarre to flag down a cab and split while your buddy is in trouble. Remember, he didn't die at the scene - he died 2 days later. And it wasn't like a gang attack. There were only two other guys.
Only two guys? Then why were four people charged in the attack? You have no idea what happened that night and neither do I, all we do know is a man was murdered and George escaped with his life. Presuming to judge the man on something of this magnitude with woefully incomplete information should be beneath you and if it isn't you should pretend it is, just for sake of appearances. I have serious complaints about how he runs scam.com and honestly wish there was some way to make him at least acknowledge those issues, but libel wont help. Trying to use a tragedy like this to sully the man's reputation is simply contemptible.
Well, since everyone is over here now, lol....I decided to join.
I have no respect for Lady M or for George and for many many reasons which go back for years. George has never really been that involved in the site nor in it's management. When Mumbles had a melt down and he was finally banned (after many of the regular posters were banned by him and left), LM brought him back. WTF? In fact, she banned my little ass for standing up to him and to her over the whole fiasco. George will just about make anyone a Mod over there. Cripes, he made the biggest loser/failure/liar/troll on the site, Kerry, a Mod. lmao He has Mods that are worthless over there now. He lost all the good Mods. He let one Mod, who rarely showed up, run wild and just delete things and ban posters for no just cause and then he would disappear again. lol He does not know the members nor does he care to even bother to check them out. The political forum is a hot mess free for all, yet suddenly the MLM is supposed to be different now.
I don't know what hold that Len has over George, but making him not only a Mod, but an Administrator was a huge mistake. There was no reason to do that. Since George is famous for deleting threads with no explaination, even to the Mods, let alone the members, he could have deleted the threads about Len and Yoli, but to bring him on board and which then caused the banning of Tom, the banning of SBM, not to answer her emails over that situation, after the years of incredible service and and time she put in on that forum, to see long time members fleeing the board, others being banned, others rarely posting, is simply beyond sad, it's a disgrace.
Now he has himself as NN Nude News is spamming the hell out of the chat forum (it's pretty much in the toilet) and other forums and he's added video ads at the end of posts. It was bad enough when he had the Ashley dating site link for weeks appearing at the end of every posts (a site for married men to meet women). He has no morals, no ethics and frankly he's an asshole. When a mirror site of Scam was found on the net with our posts on it and this was discussed and linked in the Political forum a few months back, he lied about that as well and kept deleting the threads about it, so did LM...she was right there trying to cover his ass for him like she always does. He lies about everything. I have no respect and only distain for him. The last time I tracked that mirrored site, it was a teen porn site now and he still owns it.
I was shocked when Tom left because of ethical reasons (even though this was extremely upsetting to me, because I consider him a friend and missed him terribly- but I understood why he did it and he was right. He did the only proper thing he could do. He cowboyed up. When you have been screwed, used, lied to over and over, unappreciated, worked so hard and had enough, that's it) and also when Hopeful Cynic and Bibleman (two excellent Mods) showed their solidarity and quit, I was proud of them. They have more ethics, character and courage in their pinkies, than George (or len) will ever have. That cesspool does not deserve two individuals such as them to begin with. His unbelievable shabby treatment of SBM says it all about what kind of asshole he really is. She was the best thing that ever happened to that stink hole and she was tossed out like yesterday's garbage.
George treats the decent Mods like crap and lets the members to be treated in the same fashion. He has no idea how to actually run a good site/forum and he does not care. The place had potential and even that potential is now gone. He's like a mad dog in the manger. Won't do what is right by the forum,the members or the Mods, yet he won't sell the site to someone who could make it what it should/could be. I have no idea why he even keeps it. The political forum is full of nuts, racists and bigots. It's the same 6 people posting drivel over there day in and day out. No new members really join and if they do, they never or rarely post and many of them leave. Great way to run a site and to moderate it. Yet posters are being banned, threatened and driven off the MLM forum now and threads and posts deleted. The pro MLMers have taken over and are trolling threads, yet nothing is done to them. The anti-MLMers are ridiculed and threatened on a daily basis. Again, great way to run a site.
Funny, Lisa says she won't be posting there, yet she went right back there the next day and is posting away. That lasted five minutes. lol Many of the long time posters and certainly the Mods have known about George, his lies, his background and his behavior for a long time, (and LM's) so her news was no news to me nor to others. Just because you didn't know about him Lisa, does not mean that I and many others did not. You assume an awful lot. Lisa, you never posted on the MLM forum even once til just recently when you saw people squaring off with Len. You never participated there. This crap goes back a very long time. Something which you are not aware of and you were never a part of. The disappearance of the YTB thread for example which was the oldest and most popular and longest thread on the MLM forum went poof one day. All the years of research, articles, lawsuits, history, you name it. No explaination given to the Mods or the members.
You acted like you were the only one to stand up to Len recently. You are quite wrong and clueless. The thread about him (Len Clements who is he anyways) was deleted and we had all been on his ass for many, many months. Where were you? Oh yeah, you weren't there. You never even saw the thread nor did you even read it, even the new version. In fact, we have all said much worse to Lenny than you posted to him, and many times. lol I tried to resurrect along with Doc's help the cached version new version. It was tossed. The original Yoli thread was locked. A new one started and Len has been there daily, threatening members and deleting their posts. In the previous threads, Len threatened to sue posters, including myself. You came in a very long time after this all started. Many of us simply don't give a crap any longer and that is why we are not there. We've moved on and given up on that hell hole. There just is no point. It's not going to get any better. And in my case, I was also standing in solidarity for Tom and SBM.
So when you boast that nobody had the guts to say anything, you have no idea what you are talking about you are totally wrong! When you stated that people were just whining, many of those people already knew the score about George and the site and they damn well have a reason(s) to whine! We said plenty for months and in some cases, years! Where the hell were you when we all have been fighting the likes of the MLM slime bags on there like Chris Doyle, Kerry, Len, MLMers scum on all the Travel MLM threads and dozens and dozens more of them who use the forum to troll and recruit the gullible on a daily basis and bitching about the owner and LM and the threads being deleted, the ads, being banned, being threatened and being threatened to be sued, doing the research and posting the truth, the facts, the figures, the articles, the interviews, the court documents and more for years? Oh yeah, you weren't there were you?
You don't know 10% about the MLM forum, it's members, it's history, the Mods, the scams over there, or the owner that you think you do. You haven't said a thing (just recently, for the first time) to Len that more than a dozen of us haven't said about him and directly to him for many months on Scam. But then again, you were not there to see any of that. That is why you really do not understand what has happened, what has been happening for a long time, how bad it has really become and how ticked off and fed up people are and why, so it means nothing to you. But it meant a great deal to the rest of us. We did expose scams and scammers, we had fun, we were also serious as hell and we made some damn good friends along the way. Now all of that time and effort has been destroyed. You were not a part of any this, so you just don't get it. At least I had the courage to stand up to my convictions, keep my word and stopped posting there when Tom left, the thread was deleted and then Len made an administrator. Some of us have real balls and not pretend ones. Some of us actually had/have a dog in this mess. You don't.
Now that Len's an Administrator, it's over. The fox is now in charge of the hen house. He has a mission and George is letting him have free reign. Len is a very disturbed, desperate, egomanical, pathetic, scamming, phony. He even had several different screen names over on Scam as well. He will go to any lengths to get his way obviously and George has helped him. Two low lifes in partnership. (shakes head)
Last edited by The Grumpy Pilot on Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:42 pm, edited 17 times in total.
Doc Bunkum wrote:In case anyone is wondering what this George guy that owns scam.com looks like, or wants more information about him, check out Bunky's Blog.
Great job!!! I just felt the need to set the record straight on a few things after reading some mis-information/attitudes on here, vent and say hi to my old scam busting buds. Ahhhh the good old days are gone. Crap happens.
Last edited by The Grumpy Pilot on Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome old friend. I sure have missed having all the old gang together. Thankfully, we have escaped relatively intact from a virtual insane asylum.
Strangely, Len Clements, admin extraordinaire, has fallen rather silent. I guess he has discovered the veritable joy of dealing with a certain supermod and the fact that keeping that place cleaned up is hours of hard labor. I wonder how he will spin this fiasco?
