Ed Brown's latest rant to Joe Haas

[The Observer]

One problem with research based on the Y chromosome is that, in something like 5-10% of cases, the husband of the mother is not the father of the child. This can be the result of adultery, but also invasions or rapes. (Something like a third of all Europeans are related to Ghengis Khan.) So, if you're trying to trace the ancestry of social or religious groups, tracing the female line might be more accurate.

Concincidenally, in Jewish tradition, for a child to be able to claim that they are Jewish origin, they must show that they were birthed by a Jewish mother.

I went to an exhibit on Ghengis Khan in San Jose two weeks ago and saw an video interview with a Mongol geneticist that stated that roughly 30% of Asians shared the same Y-chromosome, which indicated descent from a common male ancestor roughly about 700 years ago. This led to a scholarly deduction that Ghenghis was the most likely culprit since his regime was responsible for high number of males being killed as well as his descendants deflowering the local women and flooding the gene pool. But there was no scientific proof that Ghenghis was the culprit, since we don't have Ghengis' DNA profile (one of the shortcomings of the Mongol Empire was their failure to invent test tubes and a method to preserve specimens until DNA could be discovered).

I did not see any thing at the exhibit that stated that Ghenghis was responsible for 30% of Europeans living today. Not to say that this is out of the realm of possibility, but Europe wasn't mentioned.

[LPC]

I went to an exhibit on Ghengis Khan in San Jose two weeks ago and saw an video interview with a Mongol geneticist that stated that roughly 30% of Asians shared the same Y-chromosome, which indicated descent from a common male ancestor roughly about 700 years ago. This led to a scholarly deduction that Ghenghis was the most likely culprit since his regime was responsible for high number of males being killed as well as his descendants deflowering the local women and flooding the gene pool. But there was no scientific proof that Ghenghis was the culprit, since we don't have Ghengis' DNA profile (one of the shortcomings of the Mongol Empire was their failure to invent test tubes and a method to preserve specimens until DNA could be discovered).

I did not see any thing at the exhibit that stated that Ghenghis was responsible for 30% of Europeans living today. Not to say that this is out of the realm of possibility, but Europe wasn't mentioned.

I was relying on my memory (always a mistake) of an article I had read. I found it online, and it is more similar to what you are reporting than what I reported:

Recently, a geneticist at Oxford University, Dr. Chris Tyler-Smith, and geneticists from China and central Asia took blood samples from populations living in regions near the former Mongol empire, and they studied the Y chromosomes. These are useful in establishing lineage because Y chromosomes continue from father to son. Dr. Tyler-Smith and his colleagues found that an anomalously large number of the Y chromosomes carried a genetic signature indicating descent from a single common ancestor about a thousand years ago. The scientists theorized that the ancestor was Genghis Khan (or, more exactly, an eleventh-century ancestor of Genghis Khan). About eight per cent of all males in the region studied, or sixteen million men, possess this chromosome signature. That’s a half per cent of the world’s entire male population. It is possible, therefore, that more than thirty-two million people in the world today are descended from Genghis Khan.

Frazier, Ian, "Invaders: Destroying Baghdad," New Yorker (4/25/2005) (highly recommended).

[The Observer]

Well, I checked a National Geographic article as well, and discovered that the 8% figure is correct as well - not 30% as I mentioned earlier. That is what I get for relying on my memory from 2 weeks ago; I must be older than I thought.

[fortinbras]

I do not know or understand the technical details but two large DNA studies established:

(1) Jews - including Ashkenaz, Sfardic, and Mizrachi (Yemen/Baghdad) - all show a high correlation with Arab populations, indicating a common ancestry, and somehow this can be dated to very roughly 4000 years ago, approximately the time of Abraham.

(2) Among Jews, descendants of Aaron are considered priests (kohanim), and a survey of modern claimants to kohanim ancestry showed a high correlation across Ashkenaz, Sfardic and Mizrachi populations, indicating that they all share a common ancestor. This is somehow dates to about 3000 years ago, or roughly the time of Moses.

There are a number of books and articles on this.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...

Just as an aside..... I remember seeing a program on PBS a few years ago, where the researchers indicated (and I hope I'm remembering this correctly) that everyone on the planet may have descended from one female who live in Africa so many millions of years ago. The researchers had studied mitochondrial DNA to make that conclusion. I understand there is nuclear DNA (in the nucleus of each cell) and mitochondrial DNA scattered around in the "main" part of the cell (I forget what the "main" part of the cell is called). Pretty technical stuff.

I participated.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic. ... atlas.html

[Famspear]

Concincidenally, in Jewish tradition, for a child to be able to claim that they are Jewish origin, they must show that they were birthed by a Jewish mother.

Many, many years ago, I had a Jewish girlfriend (we lived together "in sin" for about a year) who expressed slight annoyance over that rule, which I believe she had explained to me in connection with how you obtain citizenship status in Israel (she was American, not Israeli). Her father was Jewish, an immigrant from Russia, but her mother was only part Jewish. If I knew the precise details of how exactly the mother is determined to be Jewish for purposes of the rule on Israeli citizenship, I certainly don't remember how it goes any more.

Anyway, she was quite a woman. Thinking back, I'm a little puzzled as to why we parted.....

But that's another story.......

[The Observer]

Anyway, she was quite a woman. Thinking back, I'm a little puzzled as to why we parted.....

I'm guessing she wanted poetry instead of limericks?

[Famspear]

Anyway, she was quite a woman. Thinking back, I'm a little puzzled as to why we parted.....

I'm guessing she wanted poetry instead of limericks?

Or, maybe she would have at least settled for just reasonably good limericks.....

[Pottapaug1938]

Many, many years ago, I had a Jewish girlfriend (we lived together "in sin" for about a year) who expressed slight annoyance over that rule, which I believe she had explained to me in connection with how you obtain citizenship status in Israel (she was American, not Israeli). Her father was Jewish, an immigrant from Russia, but her mother was only part Jewish. If I knew the precise details of how exactly the mother is determined to be Jewish for purposes of the rule on Israeli citizenship, I certainly don't remember how it goes any more.

Anyway, she was quite a woman. Thinking back, I'm a little puzzled as to why we parted.....

But that's another story.......

My wife is Jewish... or not. She was raised (Reform) Jewish, certainly; but here's the problem: her mother is the daughter of a woman whose parents were Methodists. My grandmother-in-law riaised her kids Jewish; but so far as anyone knows, never converted. That makes my mother-in-law not Jewish, according to Jewish law, and thus my wife is similarly not Jewish.

... all of which irritates me. Certainly the Nazis would have no trouble murdering the entire family, or discriminating against my "1st degree half-breed" children. The fact that my wife considers herself culturally Jewish but is not religious would make no difference. Although this issue doesn't affect my own lineage (almost purebred WASP); I like to think of the definition of Jewishness put forth by Golda Meir some years ago. It went something like "with all of the sufferings and persecutions inflicted upon Jews over the centuries -- if anyone wants to step up and proclaim that they are Jewish -- LET THEM."

[Cathulhu]

During my single years 'tween husbands, lived with a wild and crazy Jewish housemate that certainly helped expand my horizons; culturally the difference in our families was surprising to me. It was my first experience with Jewish mothering, a vastly different kind than I've experienced from my own mom, 'nuff said. And it was a good mix; I expanded her musical horizons a bit. And my family made her bug-eyed at times--my dad views the woods in our canyon as his personal pantry, and it turned her vegetarian!

The zionist rants shown here previously are disturbing in the extreme, and proof that bigotry, like rust, never sleeps. Amazing how many "Paytriots" are bigots who miss the point of our melting pot.

[Prof]

As a very unsophisticated kid who grew up on a farm in rural SC, I was lucky enough to have a Jewish kid from Charleston as a roommate my sophomore year. We were fraternity brothers as well as roommates and have remained good friends all of these years. Although he practices medicine in Morristown, NJ, and I live in Texas, he comes out to Brook Army Medical to lecture every year and that has kept us in touch.

His friendship over the years has meant much to me, and my experience as his roommate broadened my parochial horizons in many, many ways.

[fortinbras]

Strange as it may seem, I rather like to read Ed Brown, Texe Marrs, Louis Farrakhan, et al., talking about the Jews and Zionists.

When I read Commentary, The Jewish Press, and other Jewish publications I am told that Jews are in danger of extinction, that Israel is teetering on the brink of destruction, that Obama is turning his back on Israel, that the UN is filled with enemies, and that the whole world is kowtowing to the Muslims.

But when I read Ed Brown I am told that Jews are very prosperous, that Jews are very powerful, that we run the country, that we run the world, etc., and then I feel so much better.

[Pottapaug1938]

Strange as it may seem, I rather like to read Ed Brown, Texe Marrs, Louis Farrakhan, et al., talking about the Jews and Zionists.

When I read Commentary, The Jewish Press, and other Jewish publications I am told that Jews are in danger of extinction, that Israel is teetering on the brink of destruction, that Obama is turning his back on Israel, that the UN is filled with enemies, and that the whole world is kowtowing to the Muslims.

But when I read Ed Brown I am told that Jews are very prosperous, that Jews are very powerful, that we run the country, that we run the world, etc., and then I feel so much better.

I've seen a joke, with much the same theme, about a German Jew reading a Nazi paper on a Berlin subway car, and offering much the same explanation for his unusual choice of reading matter.