Liberty Dollar Update

[ashlynne39]

Beck's not the only one promoting goldline or gold purchase. I listen to a variety of conservatives throughout the day on and off and I've heard quite a lot of them hawking gold lately. Rush doesn't I don't think but I feel sure Medved and Gallagher do and maybe Praeger. The new thing is food insurance though.

[wserra]

It's actually three questions.

(1) Can I buy them? Yes, you can buy anything that isn't contraband. Liberty "dollars" may be worth no more than privately-minted "collectibles", but they aren't contraband.

(2) Can I sell them? Technically, so long as you don't represent that they're money (or especially legal tender), yes, but I wouldn't advise it. That's what Von Nuthouse is in trouble for.

(3) Can I use them to buy stuff? I suppose, in the same way that you could use a bushel of corn to "buy" stuff. But they're not money, and you can't claim they are.

Of course, informational, not legal advice.

[Thule]

My pleasure to make acquaintence. like to aks question. Can I Legally buy or sell these liberty dollar from NORFED? and can we use them privately to buy merchandize? my sorry that 2 question. I am thanking u

Sure you can buy them. But if you take a look at other threads on Liberty Dollar, you will find that the actual metallic value of the coins is significantly lower than what NORFED charges. So you'll be buying at a loss, but suit yourself.

As for using them to buy merchandize, why not buy stuff directly. Better value for your money.

[Thule]

Good. I feel better using them but will not call tehm "money"
very thakful for answers. this is great country.

Just be sure to tell everybody that the numbers printed on the coins in no way represent their value. Just because you've been swindled when you bought them does not give you the right to pass the loss on to others.

[notorial dissent]

First, just bear in mind that unless you paid about half their face value, you got taken, and taken royally, and are never ever going to get it back.

They MAY contain 1 oz of silver, and I advisedly say MAY, since I have never seen a legal analysis of one, and I wouldn’t buy something like this unless I had seen a verified assay, clipping and debasing coinage is an too old an honored tradition to not take in to consideration. If they contain a full oz of silver they are worth exactly the spot price of silver on that day, and you will get approximately 2/3's of that if you try and sell them for metal value since otherwise they have no actual value, and no provenance to guarantee value. That being the problem with bullion items and failed attempts at legal tender coins.

Secondly, DO NOT, and I say again, DO NOT, under any circumstances attempt to even let someone believe by omission, that they are either legal tender or worth what the face value on them says, at which point you will be liable for passing counterfeit, and that is Federal Jail time, as von Nuthouse is eventually going to find out. There are enough of von Nutjob's disciples facing jail time as it is, to think this is even remotely a good idea.

[grixit]

Also, if you throw the libbies out the window, they won't grow into a giant beanstalk.

[Nikki]

The quality of troll is declining so rapidly.

[Cathulhu]

At least Lorne can spell. But I think you have to be pretty dumb to be a troll.

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

A fool and his Libbies....

[Parvati]

IP check in isle four.

("auntizeituni" has gone rapidly downhill from passably ESL to ESL-improbable. Harv, perhaps? It has the required elements.)

[Number Six]

First, just bear in mind that unless you paid about half their face value, you got taken, and taken royally, and are never ever going to get it back.

They MAY contain 1 oz of silver, and I advisedly say MAY, since I have never seen a legal analysis of one, and I wouldn’t buy something like this unless I had seen a verified assay, clipping and debasing coinage is an too old an honored tradition to not take in to consideration. If they contain a full oz of silver they are worth exactly the spot price of silver on that day, and you will get approximately 2/3's of that if you try and sell them for metal value since otherwise they have no actual value, and no provenance to guarantee value. That being the problem with bullion items and failed attempts at legal tender coins.

Secondly, DO NOT, and I say again, DO NOT, under any circumstances attempt to even let someone believe by omission, that they are either legal tender or worth what the face value on them says, at which point you will be liable for passing counterfeit, and that is Federal Jail time...

If you had enough of these "libbys" you could probably find a buyer for over 2/3 of melt value. They also did a gold "libby" with gold "notes". I asked JJ VanGrover a real bullion expert from NYC, about this liberty dollar series. His face flushed, and he could barely contain his anger about how stupid these people were. Over his long career in bullion and numismatic coins he had seen it all, and had seen a number of dealers and customers get caught and prosecuted for various crimes.

There are many good bullion and coin buyers in the industry who will pay nearly top dollar even for the "Liberty dollar" coins. With counterfeit coins, such as gold $20 libs. that I have seen, it may be required to deface such a coin as there are laws against counterfeits. Since the liberty dollar is not what it claims to be based on the law, buying and selling them may carry penalties unless the knowing buyer defaces it. Of course, the "notes" that were supposed to be backed by metal would have no one willing to trade them for the metal.

[Number Six]

Beck's not the only one promoting goldline or gold purchase. I listen to a variety of conservatives throughout the day on and off and I've heard quite a lot of them hawking gold lately. Rush doesn't I don't think but I feel sure Medved and Gallagher do and maybe Praeger. The new thing is food insurance though.

I called "Goldline" to check out their sell prices. British sovereigns (old) were over $500. Here is a place that is a little cheaper: http://www.apmex.com/Product/17/default.aspx

I had trouble finding a dealer that would pay full "melt" on the sovereigns (.2354 oz.) that I owned when selling, whether "kings", "queens" or "young head". I even picked up a George III Guinea from 1793 for a lot less than Goldline's sovereign sell price.

I asked what "Goldline's" sell price was for US proof modern eagles. They quoted over $3000 an ounce with box and papers--current dealer price for these is around $2100, but if you go to sell you will be hard-pressed to find the reasonably ethical shop paying more than $1500 an ounce for your proof eagle with box and coa. Modern Coin Mart is one of the top buyers on the modern gold and silver coins, they would probably offer you around $2000 per ounce. These proofs are not being minted anymore, hence the huge premium. Apmex has 1/2 oz.s for around $1050: http://www.apmex.com/Category/301/1_2_o ... Prior.aspx

I realize Goldline is employing many people, so you are paying for the advertising and the cost of running a business. But if you are using coins as an investment, you will have to wait a long time to make money. Even Peter Schiff weighed in on the Goldline controversy. He considered their spreads to be outrageous and talked about opening an arm of his "Euro-Pacific" company that would offer bullion with tight spreads. I recommend Apmex. 24 hour trades, tight spreads, based in Oklahoma City, a place that could use more good businesses. You could also try Gainesville Coin or other business that has a fully legal business structure that is in compliance with the Patriot Act, etc..

[wserra]

IP check in isle four.

("auntizeituni" has gone rapidly downhill from passably ESL to ESL-improbable. Harv, perhaps? It has the required elements.)

Brave Brave Brave Sir Harvey posts through anonymizers. aunti doesn't, and no one else posts from his/her IP.

[fortinbras]

Notorial Dissent is right. The LD is worth, at best, about half its pretended face value - and ONLY IF it really is solid gold. That's a big if because, considering Von NotHaus is already in legal trouble and it looks like the LD organization is going to shut down, they may have gotten "sloppy" about the precision of the weight and/or purity of the gold/silver. Having said that, there still is no such assurance about the LDs issued early in NotHaus's career either.

[Brandybuck]

"Fractional Reserves are the source of all eebils. That why we back our Liberty Dollars with only half of the gold and silver you paid for!" - von Nuthaus

[The Operative]

not taken i buy for 22.75 http://cgi.ebay.com/160453422786

Yes, you were taken. Why pay $22.75 for a coin that MAY contain 1 oz. silver when you can purchase a coin that is GUARANTEED by a government to contain 1 oz. silver for $20?

storey of us dolelar not end well.

Yeah, right. People, who are mainly nuts, have been declaring the imminent end of the U.S. Dollar for 30 years or more. They haven't been right yet.

[Arthur Rubin]

Yeah, right. People, who are mainly nuts, have been declaring the imminent end of the U.S. Dollar for 30 years or more. They haven't been right yet.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Sorry, I've been waiting years to use that in an argument, even if I don't think it's accurate, it's still an argument.

[The Operative]

Yeah, right. People, who are mainly nuts, have been declaring the imminent end of the U.S. Dollar for 30 years or more. They haven't been right yet.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Sorry, I've been waiting years to use that in an argument, even if I don't think it's accurate, it's still an argument.

That is true. However, declaring the end of the U.S. Dollar is imminent without an educated opinion to back it up is the same as declaring the sky is falling.

[Number Six]

Other nonsense by hard asset promoters: "Confidentiality": If you buy from them and the metals go up, and since there are no reporting requirements as there are with paper assets, you can avoid paying taxes on them--I am sure that some unlucky gold and silver investors have been audited and penalized, but this is rare. Privacy is certainly greater than with the ETF's, but a lot more of a pain to store. Eventually the accounting on the pms will become more rigorous, and the true tax rate at roughly 28% of net profit will be enforced. Short term capital gains, long term capital gains as well as capital losses become accounted for when the investor has a reason to report these. If you pick up a certified coin and get it upgraded by several points, you may be able to make five, ten thousand or more on a single transaction. The tax rate should be the highest rate in that case if the coin is sold soon thereafter.

[LOBO]

If you read his posts in Bizarro's voice from Superfriends, they become really quite entertaining.