This opinion is a hoot

[bmielke]

Ok, had to join after i saw this wacky stuff pop up on suijuris.com and another site and have been checking this out on pacer. So the deal seems to be as follows:

you buy a car, an expensive one, then decide not to pay for it, then two years later, several county court rulings, 6 middle court filings (between the vehicle and a credit card) 4 appeals, a few suggestions of middle court judge treason and subsequent suggestions of execution, 30 or so maritime liens on various bank directors and board members and YOU STILL HAVEN'T HAD TO RETURN THE CAR...nice gig if you can get it....

That sort of thing happens all the time, without so many appeals and cases. But crummy car dealers commit fraud and if Lawyers get involved before repossession then sometimes the bank will let the person hang on to the car until resolution.

[davidthompson]

Good point, except this car dealer appears to have posted a 100K bond (usually twice the amount of the vehicle held until case can be heard) for a writ of replevin almost two years ago and still waiting for resolution.

[bmielke]

Good point, except this car dealer appears to have posted a 100K bond (usually twice the amount of the vehicle held until case can be heard) for a writ of replevin almost two years ago and still waiting for resolution.

That one is different.

Just a guess, but I would guess that if the Car Dealer is still in on it that they could not sell the paper. Again that's kind of different because two to three years ago car dealers were still making up incomes and addresses, so either we have here an honest car dealer who did a little research after the papers were signed but before they were sold to a bank or servicer, or a dealer who couldn't sell them for whatever reason.

Either way I have to wonder why not charge the guy for hiding collateral and be done with it.

[Nikki]

When I started reading the opinion, I noticed the state, but not the name.

Until I checked the name, I thought it was our old buddy Heidi, who had major issues with paying her debts.

[davidthompson]

Good point, except this car dealer appears to have posted a 100K bond (usually twice the amount of the vehicle held until case can be heard) for a writ of replevin almost two years ago and still waiting for resolution.

That one is different.

Just a guess, but I would guess that if the Car Dealer is still in on it that they could not sell the paper. Again that's kind of different because two to three years ago car dealers were still making up incomes and addresses, so either we have here an honest car dealer who did a little research after the papers were signed but before they were sold to a bank or servicer, or a dealer who couldn't sell them for whatever reason.

Either way I have to wonder why not charge the guy for hiding collateral and be done with it.

No idea, this civil suit was orignally filed by the car dealer AND the finance company. According to the stuff on Pacer, she changed her mind about making any payments as soon as she drove off the lot and started with her sovereign citizen/strawman arguments when her first payment was due. Hmmm wonder why more people don't try this, always nice to have a new ride for a few years if the only penalty is a couple of court appearances ....I have been researching this movement for a few months now for a paper and i never fail to be amazed by the stuff they get away with.

[bmielke]

Good point, except this car dealer appears to have posted a 100K bond (usually twice the amount of the vehicle held until case can be heard) for a writ of replevin almost two years ago and still waiting for resolution.

That one is different.

Just a guess, but I would guess that if the Car Dealer is still in on it that they could not sell the paper. Again that's kind of different because two to three years ago car dealers were still making up incomes and addresses, so either we have here an honest car dealer who did a little research after the papers were signed but before they were sold to a bank or servicer, or a dealer who couldn't sell them for whatever reason.

Either way I have to wonder why not charge the guy for hiding collateral and be done with it.

No idea, this civil suit was orignally filed by the car dealer AND the finance company. According to the stuff on Pacer, she changed her mind about making any payments as soon as she drove off the lot and started with her sovereign citizen/strawman arguments when her first payment was due. Hmmm wonder why more people don't try this, always nice to have a new ride for a few years if the only penalty is a couple of court appearances ....I have been researching this movement for a few months now for a paper and i never fail to be amazed by the stuff they get away with.

Ah, I though your were talking about another case os Sooey (for some reason, reading is fundamental and sometimes I don't do it right) I'll have to look this one up, I assumed when I saw bank, crazy women, and Florida that this was a Foreclosure turned real ugly but a car thing is right up my alley.

[Gregg]

If the car is leased, why doesn't the finance company refuse to get tags for the car....hell, if the lease is in default and they have an order of some kind granting them possession, why not report it as stolen?

[bmielke]

If the car is leased, why doesn't the finance company refuse to get tags for the car....hell, if the lease is in default and they have an order of some kind granting them possession, why not report it as stolen?

I agree, and if she's hiding it, then why haven't charges been filed, at least in Tennessee it is a Felony to hide collateral.

[davidthompson]

we should probably post this here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=176930

they would love it

[Notional Observer]

In common with other so-called sovereign citizens, she appears to believe that ours is a legal system, not of statutes and precedent, but of sorcery, with parties prevailing as a result of their incantation of out-of-context passages from Black’s Legal Dictionary.

Best description ever of the tax denier mindset.

I agree... An excellent example of Irish diplomacy.

I like the Judge's mindset but wouldn't it have been easier if he'd just said "Dismissed because the plaintiff is a dumb-a$$"

[Pantherphil]

Much as we laugh at sovereign idiocies, the perpetrators of this gibberish are able to take advantage of State court systems which bend over backwards to provide "due process" and "fair play" with resulting injustice to honest folks who play by the rules and are simply trying to collect just debts that are due.

Here is a case study in collecting a small claim in Maine against a Sovereign who wants to play the deadbeat game. Let's say Sovereign owes you $10,000 on a signed Promissory Note. File Complaint. Pay Filing Fee. Send Summons and Complaint by Certified Mail. Pay postage. Certified mail refused. Have Summons and Complaint served by Deputy Sheriff. Pay for service of process. (Deputy may have to make several efforts to serve deadbeat Sovereign and you will pay for each attempt). Proof of Service filed in Court. File Motion for Prejudgment Attachment. and Attachement on Trustee Process With luck, Court will grant Attachment. If so, file Attachment in Registry of Deeds and pay filing fee. Chances are that Sovereign owns no real property or is hiding it in the name of his "Pure Trust" so Attachment will not be effective. Serve Trustee Process on banks and others holding property of Sovereign to "freeze" the asset for future satisfaction of judgment. (Chances are that your Trustee process comes up empty). Sovereign has 20 days to answer. Sovereign defaults and fails to answer within the allowed time. File Notice of Default. After 30 days file Motion for Entry of Default Judgment. Serve motion on Sovereign. Sovereign has 3 weeks to respond and files Motion to Set Aside Notice of Default. Motion set for hearing (with luck within 30 days). Court finds that justice requires that Sovereign have a chance to be heard and grants another 30 days to file Answer. Let's assume Sovereign files an Answer denying that he owes you the money and demanding to be "shown the Note." Court schedules PreTrial Conference (hopefully within 30 days). At PreTrial Conference Court sets schedule for discovery and motions (possibly 90 days, 120 days, or 180 days). Discovery ensues (Requests for Production of Documents and records, Written Interrogatories, Requests for Admissions, Deposition Notices). Sovereign fails to comply. File Motion to compel production of discovery. Wait 30-60 days for hearing. Judge (probably) allows Sovereign another 30 days to comply. Most likely Sovereign fails to comply. Motion for Contempt and Sanctions. Judge (probably) allows Sovereign additional time to comply. After all, its only fair to give him some time. Let's assume that Sovereign complies. Possible Motion for Summary Judgment (although Court unlikely to grant if there is even the slightest factual dispute over the amount due or an assertion by Sovereign that he was orally granted an extension of time to pay or asserts some sort of defense or counterclaim). Motion denied. On trial list waiting for court date (3 to 6 months). Trial. Court does not accept Sovereign's lying testimony that there was an oral agreement that he didn't have to pay. Judgment for Plaintiff (with costs plus statutory interest and attorneys fees if the Note so provides). Wait for 30 day appeal period to run. (Let's not bother with the delays and expenses of processing an appeal and pretend that no appeal is filed.) Request Writ of Execution. Serve Writ of Execution (Pay Deputy Sheriff). Deputy returns writ unsatisfied. Record Writ of Execution in Registry of Deeds and file with Secretary of State (Pay Filing Fees). File Motion for Collection Disclosure Hearing. Deputy Sheriff serves Motion on Sovereign to appear and examined (Pay Deputy). Schedule hearing (1-3 months). Disclosure hearing before Judge. Hopefully Judge will order asset turn over or installment payments or some other form of collection. Maybe you can even get an order of trustee process on Sovereign's employer (our equivalent to garnishment). But since Sovereign is probably cleaning pools for cash under the table your trustee process will come up empty. Sovereign defaults and fails to pay. Motion for Contempt. Schedule new Disclosure Hearing Rinse, recycle, and repeat.

If you're keeping score at home, you've been kept waiting for a couple of years and have had to pay a lot of filing fees and court costs and put up with tons of aggravation and you still haven't collected a nickel. We've provided Sovereign with lots of due process, fair play and opportunity to be heard. Not so much to you.

Of course, I can flip the story and rattle on about comparable abuses by the creditors' side. We can talk about "sewer service" and false affidavits and inadequate record keeping and outright deceit by creditors and their counsel some other time.

We need less process and more justice.

[Joey Smith]

Out-of-the-box debtors require out-of-the-box creditors.

Form a shell company in Medellin, Columbia, and assign the debt to that company. Let it slip to debtor in some filing that the creditor is a company in Medellin. Offer to Sovereign that debt will be settled with debtor paying no actual money, but Medellin company wants to take a large life insurance policy on debtor's life. Express that owners of Medellin company are "very unhappy" that Sovereign is making no effort to pay.

These days, a company formed in Juarez, Mexico, will work just as well for this purpose.

[Gregg]

Out-of-the-box debtors require out-of-the-box creditors.

Form a shell company in Medellin, Columbia, and assign the debt to that company. Let it slip to debtor in some filing that the creditor is a company in Medellin. Offer to Sovereign that debt will be settled with debtor paying no actual money, but Medellin company wants to take a large life insurance policy on debtor's life. Express that owners of Medellin company are "very unhappy" that Sovereign is making no effort to pay.

These days, a company formed in Juarez, Mexico, will work just as well for this purpose.

Pay $500 to biker gang/collection specialists, get paid in a week.

[davidthompson]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=176930&page=42

more laughs

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

If the car is leased, why doesn't the finance company refuse to get tags for the car....hell, if the lease is in default and they have an order of some kind granting them possession, why not report it as stolen?

Would have been what I would have thought. Grand theft auto of theft by swindle, as it is obvious she never intended to pay.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
Wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to just send out the repo man to get the car back?

It sounds easier than it really is. I know someone who did it for a living for a long, long time. The hardest ones are those people who aren't employed and have friends who help them hide. And there are places even a repo man won't go without a law enforcement escort.

[davidthompson]

http://www.nationalrepublicregistry.com ... 000001.pdf

still funny...

[Lambkin]

http://www.nationalrepublicregistry.com ... 000001.pdf

still funny...

Good Lord what a sad, damaged creature. She will probably end up homeless or institutionalized in short order.

[Gregg]

Normally, but in Florida she'll end up on the Board of Elections

[The Operative]

http://www.nationalrepublicregistry.com ... 000001.pdf

still funny...

Automatically invalidated since the second witness didn't sign with the full colonic version of his name. I am sure there are plenty of other magical woo-woo errors that the brainiacs at Sui will say is the reason why her UCC filing didn't save any of her assets.