Masonic Fraternal Police Department arrested

[Demosthenes]

You seem to be assuming these are not the real masons. Fact is masons have a rich history in law enforcement and the judiciary globally. This site has some spin but you'll get the idea.
http://www.usavsus.info/MasonsInLawEnforcement.html

Something to consider.
Ninj

You posted pictures of fake LEO patches online to prove that "Fact is masons have a rich history in law enforcement and judiciary globally" a claim made by wingnuts on the internet to justify ignoring or going after cops and judges.

Are you a sovereign? I haven't been around for a while so I don't know who some of the newcomers are.

[bmxninja357]

Fact is there's a few news stories and such on the subject of freemasons in law enforcement, the legal system, and government. This is not speculation but fact. The jury is still out on the level of influence, if any, membership in the freemasons has.

And the pictures of patches are not necessarily fake.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Boston-Police-Fr ... 3cf51b5bc5
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Philadelphia-Pol ... 3cf51b5df4
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Large-Embroidere ... 41953dad26
(There's many more but you get the idea)
The groups they represent are what should be in question. I have seen these type of patches with my own eyes; but I have no clue about the validity of anything they represent.

Any group with millions of members is going to have some bad apples. So how many bad apples and what is their level of influence In a country that has a long history of freemasonry? Behind closed doors what is the tolerance of such activities?

I have wondered what the truth is. There so much hype it's kinda hard to figure out.

Ninj

[wserra]

Are you a sovereign? I haven't been around for a while so I don't know who some of the newcomers are.

Ninj, Demo. Demo, ninj. Ninj is good-natured and tolerant, Demo, but it's not entirely clear where he's coming from. For example, see from here to the end of the thread. See also this thread on ninj's own board, which appears to have died on the vine.

[bmxninja357]

Wserra,
I will be posting more at the end of the work season. We had some bad weather so we had to shut down for a day. I am interested in the subject of this thread so I thought I would hen peck out a few posts on my phone as there's no net where I am but by phone. Had I known folks would misinterpret my interest I would not have bothered.

As I said before I am not for nor against the freemasons. Just interested in the level of influence and where it is used.

Peace
ninj

[Demosthenes]

Ninja. Seeing a picture of patch on the Internet doesn't mean it's a real patch. Seeing it on the shoulders of a police officer does.

The first picture below is the one sold on eBay as a collectible. The second picture is the one actually worn by Boston Police, and they aren't allowed to deviate. The same patch has to be worn on both shoulders, centered on the arm, just under the shoulder seam.

Sellers like this have created novelty patches to give collectors something new to buy. No serious collector would fall for it.



Other sellers peddling these items are a bit more honest.

THIS IS NOT A BADGE, OR BADGE PATCH. FOR COLLECTION ONLY AS A NOVELTY ITEM. IT CONVEYS NO AUTHORITY AND IT COMPLIES WITH EBAY RULES & POLICIES. THIS PATCH IS MEANT FOR COLLECTION PURPOSES ONLY!

From the seller of a Salem, MA police patch showing a witch riding on a broomstick and the caption "Witch City."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MA-Salem-Massac ... 5673f7270c

[Demosthenes]

Ninja, I've read on a million website that the government has been covering up evidence of UFOs in the desert.

It's a fact, and the Truth is buried in plain sight on the new $10 dollar bill that those Federal Reserve Illuminati bastards will be releasing into the public later this fall.

[bmxninja357]

As I said I have also seen some patches at flea markets. It's more an oddity that there would be so many different ones.

I also did not expect to find so many fake freemason lodges. It's hampering my digging around as if I find something about a freemason it's a lengthy process to try and find if an individual is a real or make belive mason. And without a solid release of membership how does one know what has been covered by the cloak of anonymity of membership?

Interesting digging anyway.
Peace
ninj

[Demosthenes]

Freemasons are second only to the Jews when it comes to playing the conspiracy theory boogeyman role.

[bmxninja357]

I'm more interested in the facts than the fictions. But I question the reliability of some of the news items. And although I have read much from the freemasons own sites I never expect the nefarious to admit to such.

I mean in most areas the judiciary and law enforcement still don't call groups like the hell angels an ongoing criminal enterprise. And acording to them they are motorcycle enthusiasts who perform works of Charity.

Difference is the hell angels admit to being members.

So it would be interesting to know the truth.
Peace

[Pottapaug1938]

Ninja. Seeing a picture of patch on the Internet doesn't mean it's a real patch. Seeing it on the shoulders of a police officer does.

The first picture below is the one sold on eBay as a collectible. The second picture is the one actually worn by Boston Police, and they aren't allowed to deviate. The same patch has to be worn on both shoulders, centered on the arm, just under the shoulder seam.

Sellers like this have created novelty patches to give collectors something new to buy. No serious collector would fall for it.



Other sellers peddling these items are a bit more honest.

THIS IS NOT A BADGE, OR BADGE PATCH. FOR COLLECTION ONLY AS A NOVELTY ITEM. IT CONVEYS NO AUTHORITY AND IT COMPLIES WITH EBAY RULES & POLICIES. THIS PATCH IS MEANT FOR COLLECTION PURPOSES ONLY!

From the seller of a Salem, MA police patch showing a witch riding on a broomstick and the caption "Witch City."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MA-Salem-Massac ... 5673f7270c

I have lived in Boston for 38 years; and I have never seen police officers wear anything but the second patch, unless they are part of a specialized unit such as the Gaelic column -- and then they only wear that patch when they are performing with that unit. Once back at their regular jobs, they wear the regular patch.

[Demosthenes]

I'm more interested in the facts than the fictions. But I question the reliability of some of the news items. And although I have read much from the freemasons own sites I never expect the nefarious to admit to such.

I mean in most areas the judiciary and law enforcement still don't call groups like the hell angels an ongoing criminal enterprise. And acording to them they are motorcycle enthusiasts who perform works of Charity.

Difference is the hell angels admit to being members.

So it would be interesting to know the truth.
Peace

What?

Here's a sampling from a recent FBI report on motorcycle gangs:

In June 2012, 20 Hells Angels Motorcycle Club (HAMC) members and associates were
indicted as a result of a cooperative federal, state, and local task force investigation into
the Hells Angels Rock Hill, South Carolina chapter. Additionally, 19 of these OMG members
and associates were convicted of drug dealing; money laundering; firearms trafficking; use of firearms in relation to crimes of violence and drug dealing; attempted armed robbery; arson; and other offenses. More than 100 weapons were seized, which included machine guns, silencers, assault-style rifles, semiautomatic pistols, and revolvers.

In December 2012, seven members of the Wheels of Soul (WOS) MC were convicted in federal
court of racketeering conspiracy and related charges, including murder, attempted murder,
and conspiracy to commit murder, and tampering with evidence. Additionally, in April 2013, the final indicted members of the WOS were sentenced for their roles in a racketeering conspiracy, according to open source reporting.

[bmxninja357]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 54670.html

That's interesting.
Ninj

[LightinDarkness]

Fact is there's a few news stories and such on the subject of freemasons in law enforcement, the legal system, and government. This is not speculation but fact. The jury is still out on the level of influence, if any, membership in the freemasons has.

Actually, the jury is not out on the "level of influence." The level of influence would be zero. Yes, there are masons who work as police, lawyers, and judges. There are also masons who work at your local department store, McDonalds, or are unemployed.

There is zero substantiated evidence the masons somehow exert undue influence in any aspect of law enforcement. In fact, as far as I know, every time a mason has been in a position to get any "favor"...the police have been harsher on us. Those are just random personal stories, of course, but they mean more than the evidence you have presented (which is zero).

You are creating the illusion of controversy when there is none.

Any group with millions of members is going to have some bad apples. So how many bad apples and what is their level of influence In a country that has a long history of freemasonry? Behind closed doors what is the tolerance of such activities?

This is a classic conspiracy theorist argument. Yes, there are dumb/crazy/stupid/evil people who get past the application process and become masons. But there is no reason to believe that, by virtue of being masons, they somehow exert some undue influence that dumb/crazy/stupid/evil people would not do on their own.

As for the organization, there is no tolerance for that kind of thing. You could find that out yourself by looking up the oaths (I can't tell you what they are, but they've been published for centuries). The oaths specifically say masons may not engage in anything that does not further the pursuit of truth, rebel or undermine the government in any way, and that all members must follow the law in the area in which they live.

[grixit]

Is there no fact checking for the Widow's Son?

[AndyK]

Freemasons are second only to the Jews when it comes to playing the conspiracy theory boogeyman role.

And then there are the Jewish Masonic lodges which are the REAL ones running the world -- answering only to the Illuminati.

[The Observer]

The oaths specifically say masons may not engage in anything that does not further the pursuit of truth, rebel or undermine the government in any way, and that all members must follow the law in the area in which they live.

Well, someone really dropped the ball on this one. How does the Illuminati allow an oath like this to get administered to its minions?

[bmxninja357]

I think the vast majority of freemasons are good folks. But I also know in any large group there will be some who are not good. In the case of freemasons I think it's a small but we'll connected group. If that was not the case things like in the UK or in the propaganda due lodge would not happen.

Peace
ninj

[Demosthenes]

Is there no fact checking for the Widow's Son?

[Demosthenes]

I've never seen any evidence of LEOs or Judges pushed into an unethical choices by the masons. Does this mean it hasn't happened? Probably not. I just haven't seen any cases.

I have seen LEOs and at least one Judge who acted based on pressures from the Mormon church.

I have seen LEOs who have fallen for sovereign citizen idiocy and ended up out-of-work and/or in prison. A few ex-judges have, but I haven't found a sitting judge yet.

I have seen LEOs and Judges who did favors for family members.

I have seen LEOs and Judges who did favors for money or sex.

I have seen LEOs and Judges who acted based on ego/power. This one should probably be at the top of the list.

In other words, cops and judges are human beings who are subject to the same temptations and pressures as everyone else. In today's politics and power plays, exclusive golf courses are more problematic than the masons.

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2011 ... oliticians

[bmxninja357]

Thanks for the viewpoint demo. And I agree that much takes place on the links. No one to listen in. I'm sure we could speculate on that for days.

But I'm interested in what groups inside groups are currently acting with less than honorable intent. For the purpose of this thread it's the freemasons and police/judiciary.

So far I have learned there is way more fake lodges than I imagined. There is also far more unauthorized paraphernalia relating to the freemason than expected. But I did expect some.

It is also clear that dishonorable actions have came from certain members of masonry. This does not by any means conclude that freemasons are all bad. It does show that it has been used as a vehicle for criminal and shady activities by a few. And that is inevitable if you have enough members In any group.

And I'm going to say this loud and clear. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I have helped debunk several theories and will continue to do so. I don't post there much but I do spend time on the sgu forum and reading over at skeptoid.

My intent is to separate fact from fiction and learn what I can on this subject.

Peace
ninj