Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[noblepa]

The Freeman dream is to live outside of society and have to pay nothing.

Actually, that's not quite right. The Freeman dream is to live WITHIN society and pay nothing.

It is entirely possible to live outside society and pay nothing. Just go up in the mountains somewhere and live off the land. Don't hold a job, so you don't owe any taxes. Don't own anything, especially land, so you don't have to pay property taxes. Don't drive a vehicle, so you don't have to have a license or insurance. Learn to hunt with a bow, so you don't even have to pay for guns or ammunition. Even at that, you may run afoul of hunting season laws.

The Freeman want to have a nice house without paying a mortgage or property taxes. They want to have a good, paying job, without paying income taxes. They want to drive on publicly-funded highways, without a driver's license or insurance. And a lot more. They want all the benefits of society without the responsibilities or the costs.

[Burnaby49]

The Freeman dream is to live outside of society and have to pay nothing.

Actually, that's not quite right. The Freeman dream is to live WITHIN society and pay nothing.

It is entirely possible to live outside society and pay nothing. Just go up in the mountains somewhere and live off the land. Don't hold a job, so you don't owe any taxes. Don't own anything, especially land, so you don't have to pay property taxes. Don't drive a vehicle, so you don't have to have a license or insurance. Learn to hunt with a bow, so you don't even have to pay for guns or ammunition. Even at that, you may run afoul of hunting season laws.

The Freeman want to have a nice house without paying a mortgage or property taxes. They want to have a good, paying job, without paying income taxes. They want to drive on publicly-funded highways, without a driver's license or insurance. And a lot more. They want all the benefits of society without the responsibilities or the costs.

Based on my experiences with Freemen I'd change that a bit;

They want to have a good, paying job, without paying income taxes.

That's a best case scenario, Many of them, Yankson, Holmes, and others, don't want to be just left alone in untaxed peace. They've gone to court demanding that other people's tax money be given directly to them to support them in luxurious style. Holmes was quite explicit that the government was required to support him to the tune of $33,000,000 in one case and $100,000,000 in another with interim payments until he got the big payout.

As I said about Charles;

Charles has issues with the Canada Revenue Agency about the ways they are trying to trammel on his personal freedoms. You know, like trying to collect tax and refusing to cash out his secret government trust. So, deciding that the best defense is an offense he's off and running with a lawsuit against the government of Canada and the province of British Columbia. All he wants is to be left alone, have $5,000,000 of assessed taxes forgiven, and $43,000,000 from the two governments to compensate for hurt feelings. He's tried before, this is his seventh action against the federal government so far this year. The prior six were dismissed as scandalous, vexatious, frivolous, and an abuse of process but Lucky Seven is sure to do the trick. To be fair he's becoming far more reasonable. Previously he apparently wanted $100,000,000 in damages but he's decided to moderate his demands.

[notorial dissent]

rumpelstilzchen, I would say that I pretty much agree with everything you posited, until we get down to the final bit. I think that Deano does know that what he is doing is wrong, just that he doesn’t care, he is a special snowflake and the rules don’t apply to him. I see that in his actions more than I do anything else when it comes right down to it.

I do think that my views on the subject are far closer to Ninj’s than anything else. I think his description of the Deano is pretty much spot on. I would also add petulant and incredibly foul mouthed, as well as being inarticulate to it.

I do think he has bought in to a great deal of the mythos, as witness his proclivity to sue at the drop of a hat, when prior history and experience should tell him that it will simply yet another in a long line of fails. This alone tells me he has at least bought in to some of the myth, just not how much or how thoroughly he believes in any of it. Deano has always struck me as a natural opportunist more than anything else, which would explain why he fell in to this in the first place. He saw an opportunity to make a living off other, bigger fools and not have to actually work, and all for just preaching this particularly line of BS, and that is exactly what I think he did.

Dean’s biggest tell is that he doesn’t learn from mistakes, just keeps right on going back out and repeating them over and over. He has never had any kind of real court victory, and yet he continues to fight the same battles over and over again in court, and loses each time, his Freeman woo never survives the first encounter and he’s back in a jail cell. He has gotten off very lucky the last few times, his last encounter, will have ended that. From now on they will be expecting and assuming trouble when they encounter him, and will most likely get or give it.

The man is a flaming self destructive fool.

[Jeffrey]

Minute 45 Dean calls the jail guards "faggots".

At minute 50 we get to watch Dean, the Canadian, complain about Obamacare. In an earlier video he complains about Trump being a presidential candidate.

Is there no news in Canada, Dean is always complaining about American things.

Ooo, we get the name of the parole officer at minute 70.

Possible hint about tomorrows hearing at minute 90. Dean mentions repeatedly that he was "out of town". Last I checked he can't leave town.

[k1w1]

Hyrion, you can blather on all you want about what you think happens to someone who plans a murder or a bank heist or about the problem of victims not wanting to come forward, but the fact remains that holding a seminar and filling people’s heads with pseudo-legal nonsense is not an offence.

You say you think some people really do attend Clifford seminars with the genuine expectation they’re going to receive legitimate legal information. Really? Who?

If someone attends one of those seminars and the next day they go to the police and complain that they attended a seminar where a dude who pretends to be a construction worker filled their head with pseudo-legal nonsense that is worthless, all the police will do is tell them not to use the information -- and they might also mention that the person should think about spending their money more wisely in the future. Or in other words, if they genuinely want legitimate legal information then they should spend their money on a lawyer or an accountant, not on some dude who they have no reason whatsoever to believe is qualified to give legitimate legal information.

And if someone attends one of those seminars and then they go off and use the information and they happen to commit an offence because of that, then their only defence would be to claim they were acting in good faith based on an honestly held belief that the information was legitimate. But that won’t work because no court has ever found those people to be acting in good faith.

So, who are these people who attend seminars by Clifford with a genuine expectation they going to receive legitimate legal information? Those people only exist in your head, mate. I don't think you know who you're talking about.

And then we have the spectacle of arayder plaintively insisting that Dean Clifford really is an extraordinary fellow. The irony of that is almost exquisite. And then he trots out his usual tired, hackneyed phrase about goal posts. Yawn.

[bmxninja357]

deaner love!
deaner loves!
deaner love's traveling salvation show!

he is so nothing but a good mark for a comedy heel. since i do not believe this chucklehead is actually the dumbest man alive, i think he is continuing a con. he got busted for his grow show, and all that comes with that much criminal activity. by the most common method of growing its aboot a quarter pound a plant. times number of plants and do it four times a year....

since the prosecutable crime is done; and he cant do it for a while... political prisoner! use the cult of the deaner! make them donate. like all federal inmates talking to santa.... "and i want a tv in my cell, and i want a playstation. and i want lots of candy....". and there in is the crux of the thing.

we have to ask ourselves,"is the criminality freeman related at all to the crimes?" and no, they are not. (the defense is not the means motive or opportunity. it is after the fact.).

the freemanism cult of the dean continues from prison. in fact it could be good for him if he can pull enough in. in the crowbar hotel its hard to stay in smokes and cokes. and if your an attention hog visits; dosen't matter from who. he is prepared for jail. as long as he is well paid and gets a glorious return.

the guns and grow are standard fare for old school growers.no more no less.

the rest is a show for money. no amount of proof otherwise will sway the true believer. they believe and that is that. and he has pocketed thousands. i have ran my own site for years. 35-50 bucks a month. it does not have to be stylin'. i just dont cater to chuckleheads. dean does. and theres gold falling off them dumb dimwits.

the saving grace for dean, if there is one, is that he has not done pen time before.(pen time =federal time. 2 years plus a day.) the courts generally do not like prolonging pen time longer than necessary if you have not been there previously. it will not give him a pass. but it gives an option of softening the blow. but dean couldnt shut up....

im of the belief anyone following or paying for dean from this point on deserve everything they get. which is mostly, "tell them what they want to hear. wait for the returns".

peace,
ninj

[Burnaby49]

The World Freeman Society givs their own slant on the Cari-Lee story.

http://worldfreemansociety.ca/forum/74- ... he-promise

[pigpot]

The World Freeman Society givs their own slant on the Cari-Lee story.

http://worldfreemansociety.ca/forum/74- ... he-promise

But the "World Freeman Society" is a load of old rubbish because it is still populated by idiots. I've said this for some time. There are the exceptions there as there are here (on this site) but in the main (if there is such a thing, as in a "main" anything) the posters there post rubbish. I'm not going to name names as that's been done before.

[arayder]

Dean’s biggest tell is that he doesn’t learn from mistakes, just keeps right on going back out and repeating them over and over. He has never had any kind of real court victory, and yet he continues to fight the same battles over and over again in court, and loses each time, his Freeman woo never survives the first encounter and he’s back in a jail cell. He has gotten off very lucky the last few times, his last encounter, will have ended that. From now on they will be expecting and assuming trouble when they encounter him, and will most likely get or give it.[/color][/b]

Yeah, Dean is doing the same routine he's done in all his previous jailings. . . pretend he's dismissed the rulings of the court, ignore the orders of the court and refuse to show at any subsequent court dates.

It seems he will do the same this time.

I note too that Clifford has developed an explanation for why he showed up for and participated in the court hearings that suited his needs. . .he says he only did so because the courts were threatening his life. Dean even provides us with a fanciful recounting of the verbal beat down he says he gave the judge.

And then we have the spectacle of arayder plaintively insisting that Dean Clifford really is an extraordinary fellow. The irony of that is almost exquisite. And then he trots out his usual tired, hackneyed phrase about goal posts. Yawn.

Substance please, k1w1.

[wserra]

his new country - "Freelandia"

Hail Freelandia! Oh don't you cry for me.

[notorial dissent]

Shouldn't that be Freetardia???

[NG3]

Shouldn't that be Freetardia???

Google says you may be right

Note - Link deleted - Burnaby49

[Philistine]

Shouldn't that be Freetardia???

Google says you may be right

Link nixed..

Malicious website detected...

[LordEd]

Or in other words, if they genuinely want legitimate legal information then they should spend their money on a lawyer or an accountant, not on some dude who they have no reason whatsoever to believe is qualified to give legitimate legal information

Don't forget the pre-conditioning. They have learned that the lawyers and judges of the "BAR" are trained to hide these magic words and won't give real legal advise or risk losing enslavement of the masses.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Minute 45 Dean calls the jail guards "faggots".

At minute 50 we get to watch Dean, the Canadian, complain about Obamacare. In an earlier video he complains about Trump being a presidential candidate.

Is there no news in Canada, Dean is always complaining about American things.

Ooo, we get the name of the parole officer at minute 70.

Possible hint about tomorrows hearing at minute 90. Dean mentions repeatedly that he was "out of town". Last I checked he can't leave town.

At about the 30 min mark, he present the magic bullet winning argument that will win every court case. All you have to do is take the stand and yell nonsense about property and beneficiaries at everyone. I could be wrong but I don't recall the muscular freeman taking the stand in his own trial...

[Jeffrey]

At about the 30 min mark, he present the magic bullet winning argument that will win every court case. All you have to do is take the stand and yell nonsense about property and beneficiaries at everyone. I could be wrong but I don't recall the muscular freeman taking the stand in his own trial...

No no, that didn't work because he didn't have a court reporter with him.

[wserra]

Shouldn't that be Freetardia???

Google says you may be right

Marx Brothers in "Duck Soup", you heathens.

[NG3]

Shouldn't that be Freetardia???

Google says you may be right

Marx Brothers in "Duck Soup", you heathens.

Not a patch on Engels in "Monkey Business"

[Hyrion]

It’s only you who seems think they should be disappointed for what they received.

That was your estimate of what others think relative to an opinion voiced by Lord Ed. Obviously mistaken as there was clear proof that he was not alone in the particular thought expressed - as I clearly indicated. As a result, I think I'll take your opinion of estimating what kind of person will show up anywhere for any reason with the huge grain of salt it deserves.

As for your obvious trolling efforts, in the future I'll pass, but I'll respond once to one form of trolling you employed to show it is trolling.

You're deliberately misrepresenting something I said, changing context and then attempting to challenge me to prove something that would be virtually impossible to prove without being there at one of his seminars and taking a poll of every person attending - and trusting each of those individuals to be honest. And then drawing the conclusion that the results of that one seminar must apply equally to all others - to avoid such, one must show up at a reasonable distribution of his seminars to get a more accurate representation of who shows up to those.

The misrepresentation:

You say you think some people really do attend Clifford seminars with the genuine expectation they’re going to receive legitimate legal information. Really? Who?

I didn't say anything of the sort. And I challenge you to prove I did by pointing exactly to where I did say that.

What I did say was that I "happen to agree mostly with Lord Ed with regards what's being presented" and that you did not speak for me when you said "It’s only you who seems think they should be disappointed for what they received".

To clear the record with regards my opinion as I hold it:

Has Clifford been presenting information as though it's legitimate legal information all the while claiming it's not? Absolutely.

Has he been presenting that info as though it has worked for him on the Legal Front all the while getting himself deeper and deeper into Judicial trouble with those very tactics? Absolutely.

Have people attended with the "genuine expectation they're going to receive legitimate legal info"? I didn't previously speak to this point, so here's my response on that: That's a strong possibility and has likely occurred at a number of Clifford's events - but no guarantee, just a strong possibility. So far, you're the only one who has taken a "only this type of person would show up" position.

Whatever people attending genuinely expect, should they be disappointed for what they received from Clifford after having paid him anything? Absolutely - and from my position it does not matter what they genuinely expect - they should be disappointed in actually paying Clifford for anything he presents.

[LordEd]

Just to clarify, the question was:

So what is the story here?

My answer:

A freeman guru was arrested at the end of his $150/head seminar and the methods he just taught didn't work.

Those two points are straight fact. If I'm wrong, please correct.
My add-on opinion:

The more top level gurus in jail, the less who will fall for the scam.

The overall scam is freemanism in general. Dean is just tapping the saps who already bought into the idea. I know he was not arrested for his seminar. I was pointing out that the content of his seminar did nothing to help himself out of trouble. That type of higher profile failure could help discourage a freeman student from moving the theory into practice, and the inevitable failure.